Here's my two cents worth:
First off: One needs to look much deeper than just the outward appearance of a mare and stallion! Each line in the haflinger breed has its faults and good traits. Although breeding is NOT a 100% science, if it were, we would all be riding the same horse, it is something that some of us enjoy the challenges of. In doing so, we take into consideration much more than what is standing before us.
I love to hear the people that won't breed their mare because she is not "modern" or "perfect" or "the best"! You see, that is why we breeders breed. To take something of imperfection and make it better each time. The general rule of thumb when breeding using the point system for example or classification, is to improve 3 points each offspring. Now think here folks, if that was 100% true- after a few offspring- wouldn't we all have "gold" horses? That is why breeding IS a challenge.
I understand the replacing your average mare with something that is in the line for perfection, however- I have had the experience, as well as my parents and grandparents, to know that sometimes this doesn't work out so well. I will say, that there stands many silver mares around here, and obviously silver stallions, however, my best cross is my LOWEST classified mare. She has OUTPRODUCED every other mare here when crossed with our younger silver stallion. Now here is a little about her- she has the best bottom a horse can have- meaning feet and legs are very clean, straight, ect. She has an OK head, a little bit roman nosed, but not much. She has a nice shoulder and hip, her color is very light, She needed a better top line, a better wither, more reach in her rear end. She, as do all horses, has her faults. However, she has produced two outstanding fillies- perfect chisled heads, long necks, good shoulders, good legs and feet, good wither, top line, good hip, outstanding movement and there color- a deep golden, almost red, with pure white manes and tails, one filly has a star, one a strip. But, I mean to say they are SUPER quality. Now this same mare was bred to another stallion, and although there are some nice things about her first filly, they left alot to desire. Did I give up on the mare- Good thing I didn't!!!
Now- I have another mare who is Silver, not high silver, but a good solid mare, and yes- she has produced nice foals over and over. However, they are NOT all the same, she HAS shown her ability to produce top quality over and over, and her daughters are producing some terrific foals as well! So, don't get me wrong- breeding is not all a science, but it does have its traits too!
I also have seen many top horses that never produced anything worth 5 cents! It happens. I have seen MANY just average horses outproduce all others. I have seen great horses that made terrific improvements on a breed or its faults. Anything is possible when you breed! Breed the same cross 10 times and you will get 10 different horses more than likely! But- breeding is serious thing, and should be taken into serious thought and preperation, trying to make the best you can.
So- I think you need to look deeper- not just at a certain stallion, but what he produces, does he over power certain faults or does he just go along for the ride? Each stallion and mare, does pass on certain traits generally. Not to say that is 100%- as finding those homozygous genes are much more difficult when we get to structure, disposition, ect. But I do think for sure that certain lines, certain mares, certain stallions, all have their own unique producing power. It is up to us as breeders to help our mares and stallions by finding others to cross with them that will improve their weaknesses or lack of producing power.
I do believe that trying to improve the whole horse, verses part of the horse is much more difficult. I know that for years our family bred haflingers for legs and feet, super movement and correctness. I will say that I am breeding to improve heads, color, withers, up hill build, and overall athletics while maintaining the rest of what our horses already have, super dispositions, super feet n legs, good hips, nice shoulders, ect. So- I sought out a stallion that would help me with just these issues. I found my boy! He has produced his head, his color, his ability n disposition, his wither n up-hill build while not compramising anything my mares already have going for them.
Now- as all good stallion owners, people will answer your questions truthfully. If you are serious about breeding your mare, first, search your mares pedigree, see as many pictures, reports, ect as you can. Find offspring if there are any. Have others veiw your mare, her relatives, offspring, ect. and see others opinions. Be open minded. Not to say that everyone is right, but try hard to find the good qualities, verses the not so good. Now- go on to see if there are any certain crosses out there with your mare lines, to certain stallion lines that really improved these things. If so, thats a good start. Search for stallions that can be an asset to your mare. Look and find as many as you can, then start calling! Be truthful about your mare, try to find breeders with high standards, a good reputation, ect. Tell them what you KNOW about your mare and what you don't, about her faults and good things. Tell them what you are wanting to improve. Ask to see offspring, a progency report, ect. Look up the foals and their dams- any related to yours? What was that cross? See what I am getting at here?
If it were just so easy to make top quality horses- the WHOLE world would have done it by now! But it is tough- and takes serious thought and effort, and yes, after you are all said and done and your mare is bred, and you make it through 340 days of sleepless nights, and finally here is a colt- don't be dissapointed if it is not 100% perfect- that is why breeders re-breed!!
Best of luck and I hope this helps in some way, shape or form!
Sincerely,
Dawn
Rivervalley Ranch
www.csmachinery-rivervalleyranch-haflingers.com
--- In haflingerfriends@yahoogroups.com, "castlerockjacobs" <castlerockjacobs@...> wrote:
>
> I was looking at the Haflinger Magazine for Dec. -Jan. that I just got. On page 30 I was looking at the National Champion SIP stallion Arno van het Nieshof and thought I could ask this question as he is recognaized a one great horse. I wonder how one would pick a stallion by the current appearance? I like the darker colors with no mealy gene and so if I saw a picture of him, I would consider him or a darker stallion. However, looking at his get on the same page , they all have extensive mealy gene..one verging on very light too. I know the mares have equal influence but say I had a mare with minor mealy gene like Meg and wanted to breed that out by picking a stallion...how would I go about it? Is mealy gene dominant? Is the smooty gene dominant? If you breed smooty to mealy..what would be the result? Is one dominant over the other?
> How much should one go by the picture of the stallion in say Haflinger Magazine?
> Say a stallion's hip is too high and his withers not uphill...how dominant is that? How about the layed back shoulder that allows the great front extension for driven dressage?
> How do you modify some of these things and not end up with too thin legs?
> If you breed a shorter horse to a taller one does that guarentee the foal will grow larger than the Mom? Woden is almost 4 and it does look like he will only be as tall as his 14HH mom in stead of his 14.3HH dad. I know some still grow till 5.
> If you are breeding do you just work on one improvement at a time? or say could you pick a stallion that would produce a nonmealy, more toward the darker color with great extension and front hooves almost touching the rear in movement with a great topline and pretty face? If not I guess you would pick movement first?
> Since breeding has dropped off because of the market I just thought a discussion on how you move to the standard would be interesting. And if some of us are making a decision for a certain use, how would we go about it? I am hoping everyone will pitch in here as well as some big breeders who see lots of get. thanks in advance. Victoria da Roza, Walnut Creek, Ca.
>
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