Don't take this wrong, as I do agree with much of what you have said, however, be careful not to contradict yourself here as the I&C IS in my opinion, very "trendy". If you don't think so, take a horse that was classified twenty years ago and re-classify them against todays standards. You might be surprised! Sure you can appeal, however, I have not EVER seen where appealing a score and re-classifying a horse has ever made much more than a points difference. Sure, there is debate on the classification scoring system, and how to get all judges to see through the same eyes- good luck! Everyone of us likes certain traits in horses more than others. Every person does NOT want the SAME horse. There IS NO way of creating a perfect situation in classification, or judging. It is a personal opinion, and yes, it is influenced to the best of its ability, for structure and traits or characteristics, but NO THREE PEOPLE will have the EXACT SAME score very often. That is what makes each and every one of us and our horse unique!!!!!!
Also- my opinion again, but the I&C is ONLY ONE TOOL to help a person with breeding. There is MUCH more to breeding then a score on an I&C chart. In this country it is NOT mandated at this point for I&C. We, the people, have a chance to influence the breed with OUR standards for the breed as well as the WHF and the AHR's standards. The intergrity of the breed should not be comprimised in my opinion. Just to breed for numbers is wrong in my opinion. To breed with purpose IS what MOST people who are serious about breeding do and have done. I don't feel that most people want to deter from anything less than what we have now.
One more thing...if we only bred the top mares, do you understand how that affects the gene pool? Most of the top mares are closely related to each other- if you do not understand the lineage of the haflinger, and how to strengthen and develop the breed beyond today and its best of today, then I do not think you should critisize others. There are many lines of Haflingers that need NOT to die out because they are NOT Todays "TOP" quality!
Really- how many good haflingers are there out there that nobody wants? Please let me know- my doors are welcome to haflingers that have no home and are not beyond 40 and ready to be laid to rest!!
I know of many haflingers for sale, I will admit, but none that NEED a home and people are willing to give away for free, that are in good health. Not grades either please... I am breeder don't forget!
Not to say that what you wrote isn't very correct in a lot of ways, and I do agree with many parts of it- be sure you understand breeding, that the outcome is a foal, and what you are planning to do with it, but Kiola, I guess I do not know many haflinger breeders who are just breeding to breed right now, if ever.
And most on this chat are owners of one or two haflingers, not a breeding program for sure, so I do understand your thoughts here. But a person still has a right to breed a mare if he or she wants to and yes they should be responsible about it, but I don't think they have to have the top horse in the country to breed, today, yesterday or tomorrow. OK, I'll step down now. Have a good night, and don't take this all personal, it is my opinion just as yours was your opinion. I respect you for that and sincerely hope you do the same in return.
Sincerely,
Your haflinger friend as well,
Dawn
--- In haflingerfriends@yahoogroups.com, "kiolak" <kiolak@...> wrote:
>
> Ok, so maybe I am missing something here... shouldn't all people who are interested in breeding their registered Haflingers be looking at the breed standards for guidance?
>
> Here they are per the American Haflinger Registry:
> http://www.haflingerhorse.com/ahr_breed_standards.htm
>
> Here they are per the World Haflinger Federation:
> http://tinyurl.com/ybrmfgm
> Found here:
> http://www.haflinger-tirol.com/en/world_federation/
>
> I would encourage all (USA owners) who are considering breeding their registered Haflingers to undergo having their horses evaluated in the Inspection and Classification process. I realize that often times there are politics involved in judging... but there are ways to challenge poor Inspection and Classification scores per the AHR appeals process:
>
> IX: RE-INSPECTION:
>
> A. TWO TO FIVE YEAR OLDS: Due to potential differences in rate of maturity, all horses aged two through five years old may be re-submitted for re-inspection multiple times, at any time up to and including during his/her five year old year. At age 6 and over, as a mature horse, the horse is eligible for re-inspection ONCE ONLY through the appeals process. For all re-inspection, the owner must fill out a standard application form, and the full current fee will apply. The score and scorecard including comments at all re-inspections will be added to all previous records in the horse's permanent file.
>
> B. APPEALS: The judge's score on all mature horses is final, and automatically entered into the horse's inspection record. An owner will be permitted to appeal the judge's decision on a mature horse age 6 or over ONCE ONLY. The appeal must be made in writing to the inspection committee. If the appeal is accepted, the owner must pay the appropriate current inspection fee, and the horse may be re-inspected ONCE ONLY at an inspection where at least one of the judges was not present at the horse's original inspection. In the case of re-inspection, the score and scorecard including comments will be added to all previous records in the horse's permanent file. Scorecards that document a re-inspection due to an appeal will be designated as such after inspection and before entering a horse's permanent file.
>
> I have to say though, after all of that... I just looked at Victoria's horse Larissa's I&C score, and she is classified as Silver! I am just sitting here scratching my head and wondering why that would be considered as bad, or why one would question breeding her per the standards. (again... am I missing something?) I don't know what Meg's registered name is, so I can't weigh in on her breeding suitability.
>
> I would say; if a person is breeding their own horse with the intent to keep it themselves, then in my opinion is - that is fine by me!! I have a problem when people breed registered horses without paying attention to the breed standards and I&C scores are, as well as horse owners who want to breed and are willing to take a gamble when already they are not able to place the horses they already have.
>
> I HATE gambles... especially when it comes to a life. If there is not a reasonably happy and useful fate awaiting any new life we are responsible in bringing into this world... then to breed - in my opinion (and only mine) is WRONG.
>
> Breeders, whether they are hobby breeders, backyard breeders or professional breeders need to have a concrete reason to breed - whether for personal use or for profit.
>
> To those who are marketing breeding and looking to make a profit... if there is no market; because of glut, poor economy or poor breed status (due to a glut of poorly bred purebred animals) - then do the breed a favor and hold back on breeding. Only by making the demand greater than the supply will you ever know wealth through breeding.
>
> To those professional breeders, breed only superior animals, use the I&C scores, use your horses show record, go only with classical methods of training, do not jump on the "fad" bandwagon... either in training methods or in breeding standards. PLEASE I beg of you!!! Stay away from horse breed fads! Those fads are shortlived and detrimental to all horses and their owners. Ultimately, the proof is in the pudding, and you only get good results when there is a lot of time and effort as well as understanding put in to it.
>
> And now I am going to go into hibernation mode... I think I have said enough and I feel good about what I have said. I know others will look at what I have said as being judgemental or niave... I just hope that the majority of people who read my words will actually give a little thought to it all, and perhaps see some little portion of what I have said as being true to their own beliefs as well.
>
> Your Haffiefriend,
> ~Kiola~
> Brier, WA
> (who does not EVER plan on breeding any of my 3 mares)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In haflingerfriends@yahoogroups.com, "castlerockjacobs" <castlerockjacobs@> wrote:
> >
> > Yes Dawn!
> > I was hoping to hear from you ;-) I like the specifics like look to improve 3 things.
> > Not sure if I would go through the baby thing again..if I did, it would be with Meg as she was part of a 3 time national champion hitch and has great movement.
> > Dawn it would be great if someone wrote a book on breeding Haflingers and the process of looking at the issues you brought up with good example and bad example pictures. I think if individuals really knew what breeders were going for they would make better purchasing decisions and also we would have fewer just putting 2 registered Haffies together.
> > I also read in the Board notes of the national Haflinger meeting and was distressed to see there is a problem in the consistency of the judging in big Haflinger shows...that they need to develop more specifics and put in penalties if those standards are not followed. It kind of puts a subtraction on the horses named as the top if there is an issue with the judges' consistency in judging. That is why I do not enter horse shows..too many politics.
> > Now take Larissa, Herr S. said she was too short and not that well formed...but she has a beautiful head, great reddish color and people stop me on the street.literally and ask me what the breed is and say that she is truly beautiful. I like her sort of forward personality..she is herd mare. Meg(more drafty) is probably better bred but not as striking till she goes into trot and then she floats....so she does not get such a reaction. Larissa's son out of Holly Singleton's stud...which is now a gelding...added beautiful movement to Woden. Again he is his momma's son and people are just attracted to him and his movement. Actually, the day he was born one of my friends made me promise that she would be first in line if I ever sold him and she is a draft cross person!!!!
> > I just really want to understand the goals of breeding so I can understand Haflingers better, why certain ones win and which ones would make the best driving horses naturally...without the heavy shoes, etc. And all in a beautiful package so if they are in a Parade...people want to know..what kind of horse is that! Same with driving club events where it is mostly Welsh and Hackney...and they have pretty wild personalities.
> > I hope other large breeders chime in for the rest of us and let me put that pitch in again Dawn for writing that book. Victoria da Roza
> >
>
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