years, yes indeed.
Emily
On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 8:01 AM, lauraafana <quiltedpony@att.net> wrote:
>
>
> Dear Emily and Dawn,
> Thanks again for more information and clarification. This information and
> dialog would make for a very good article in the AHR newsletter. Your
> breaking it down Emily will clear up the round and flat bone for those
> wondering what that means.
> Laura of Cal.
>
>
> --- In haflingerfriends@yahoogroups.com<haflingerfriends%40yahoogroups.com>,
> Emily Gibson <briarcroft@...> wrote:
> >
> > Dawn,
> >
> > in my opinion (and based on Dr. Deb Bennett's analysis of ideal bone to
> > height ratios, anything under an 8 inch cannon circumference on a 15 hand
> +
> > horse is way too small. Here is one conformation analysis (Cherry Hill)
> that I
>
> > could find quickly on the web, also dealing with the "flat vs round"
> cannon
> > issue. The cannon bone is anatomically round--that is simply how bones
> are made, not
> > flat at all--it is the appearance of "flatness" caused by the placement
> of the tendons that is considered ideal. It really doesn't have any
> functional significance that I'm aware of whatsoever. It is aesthetics.
>
> >
> > "Quality is depicted by "flat" bone (indicated by the cannon bone), clean
> > joints, sharply defined (refined) features, smooth muscling, overall
> > blending of parts, and a fine, smooth hair coat. "Flat" bone is a
> misnomer
> > because the cannon bone is round. Flat actually refers to well-defined
> > tendons that stand out cleanly behind the cannon bone and give the
> > impression the bone is "flat".
> >
> > *Substance* refers to thickness, depth, and breadth of bone, muscle, and
> > other tissues. Muscle substance is described by type of muscle, thickness
> of
> > muscle, length of muscles, and position of attachment. Other substance
> > factors include weight of the horse, height of the horse, size of the
> hoofs,
> > depth of the heart girth and flank, and spring of rib.
> >
> > Best viewed from the rear, spring of rib refers to the curve of the ribs;
> a
> > flat-ribbed horse may have inadequate heart and lung space. Besides
> > providing room for the heart, lungs, and digestive tract, a well-sprung
> rib
> > cage provides a natural, comfortable place for a rider's legs. A
> slab-sided
> > horse with a shallow heart girth is difficult to sit properly; an
> extremely
> > wide-barreled horse can be stressful to the rider's legs.
> >
> > Substance of bone indicates adequacy of the ratio of the bone to the
> horse's
> > body weight. Bone measurement is taken on an adult horse around the
> > circumference of the cannon bone just below the knee. For riding horses,
> an
> > adequate ratio is approximately .7 inches of bone for every 100# of body
> > weight. Using that thumb rule, a 1200 # horse should have an 8.4 inch
> > circumference cannon bone for his weight to be adequately supported."
> >
> > Here are two reprints of posts I did on this list in the past about this
> > issue:
> >
> >
> > Eight Belles' break down at the end of the Kentucky Derby may not feel
> > connected to Haflingers, but there is a powerful lesson here for
> > Haflinger breeders. I am well aware the increasing frequency of break
> > downs like this in Thoroughbred front legs is attributable to the drive
> > by breeders to get the most muscle on top of the lightest bone in order
> > to attain the greatest speed.
> >
> > This is not how a horse was meant to be built although they are meant to
> > be able to run fast to escape predators. They have become anatomically
> > dysfunctional. The Thoroughbred, beautiful breed that it is, has been
> > bred to a point of becoming unable to sustain its own weight under the
> > powerful forces of speed and pounding forward momentum.
> >
> > This is a tragedy, as emotionally wrenching as Barbaro's injury and long
> > ago, Ruffian's fatal injury in her match race.
> >
> > I only hope the Thoroughbreds with denser and greater diameter of bone
> > will be bred, even if it is sacrificing speed. At least there wouldn't
> > be this kind of needless suffering of an innocent animal.
> >
> > As a close observer of Haflinger breeding practices in north Tyrol over
> > the years, I have documented, using the data provided by the Tyrolian
> > Breeders' Association in their publications, the practice of breeding
> > for a taller animal with a more refined (i.e. thinner) cannon bone
> > circumference. I also spoke directly with the director of the
> > Association, Herr Johannes Schweisgut, several years ago about the
> > trend, and gave him the data that showed the trend clearly from
> > early in the 20th century to early in the 21st century. He denied there
> > was a change from the "original" Haflinger, but the data preserved from
> > his father tells another story.
> >
> > I'm very pleased to see in the last 2-3 years of three year old stallion
> > approvals in north Tyrol, this trend seems to have been slowed. In the
> > current crop of approvals, there are only two (Altare and Whetu) who are
> > almost 15 hands with cannon bones under 8 inches circumference. There
> > are several stallions who are under 14-2 hands with the same cannon
> > circumference so their weight bearing capacity is strengthened by the
> > sturdier bone. This is a very encouraging trend! With the wisdom of
> > the inspectors and the breeders, we will preserve the powerful and
> > strong bone that makes our breed unique and avoid the deadly extremes in
> > other popular breeds.
> >
> >
> > Mr. Schweisgut could use a
> > physics lesson or a basic structural engineering course. I brought up
> > this very point in my discussion with him at the American Haflinger
> > Registry Inspection and Classification in 2004 and he was quite
> > insistent there had been no change in the cannon bone over the years
> > even though I had documentation from Austrian publications to the
> > contrary. He made special mention of this in his speech at the World
> > Show in 2005 because a number of breeders other than myself have been
> > very concerned about this trend that is fully sanctioned and
> > encouraged by the Tyrolian Breeders' Association and their inspection
> > process. In fact, in the case of inspecting my mare, Mr. Schweisgut
> > specifically looked at cannon measurement first in his assessment of
> > her and as it was 20 cm (in a 15-1 hand mare), it was not a horse that
> > interested him or that he would consider breeding quality.
> >
> > The same cannon bone circumference on a horse that is in fact 4 inches
> > taller than 25 years ago is in fact a significant change in
> > conformation and weight carrying ability. It is also interesting that
> > his father's tracking of cannon bone circumference in his past books
> > don't quite match Hannes' assessment. The cannon has gotten smaller
> > over the past century as the height has gone up. What does this
> > eventually lead to? *Barbaro* syndrome--the leg that snaps under stress.
> >
> > This is one of the many things I'm concerned is being lost in
> > translation among breeders who care deeply about the future of the
> > breed. I am not an advocate of stumpy stocky Haflingers as that is
> > clearly not (if you look at the original Haflinger founding stallions)
> > how the breed began. They have substance, yes. They have muscling,
> > yes. They have bone, yes. They have thicker necks, yes. They have a
> > delightful and friendly noble face and head, yes. They have a
> > substantial engine and medium midsection, yes. They have some
> > interesting coloring that included dark sorrel, golden sorrel, dorsal
> > stripes and variable color manes and tails, yes.
> >
> > Here is the text in the article written by the Southern Tirol Breeders
> > Association about 249 Folie, the "father" of Haflingers:
> >
> > "The cross-breeding of the oriental stallion "133 El Bedavi XXII" with
> > a local mare of Galician origins in 1874 in Sluderno/Schluderns, South
> > Tyrol, at the farm of one of these breeders, Josef Folie, gave rise to
> > a golden sorrel with dorsal stripe that was named "249 Folie". No one
> > imagined then that this was the beginning of a new breed, the
> > "Haflinger", that at that time was a popular South Tyrolean term for
> > `pack horse'.Evidently Folie had the ideal features for military use
> > and was bought as a studhorse. There are no known photographs or
> > paintings of Folie but the Commander of the stables, Count Huyn, gave
> > an enthusiastic description of the horse as a bundle of muscles with
> > Arab distinction, long, sloped shoulders, strong back, straight rump,
> > strong muscles and joints, long and correct stride and a good
> > temperament. His size was described as: Withers height 158 cm (by tape
> > measure), girth 182 cm, cannon 20.5 cm."
> >
> > I certainly wish I could have seen what that stallion looked like! I
> > certainly wish there were more people like Kerstin who really care
> > about the history of the breed and not just what will sell now.
> >
> > Emily
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 6:24 AM, rivervalleyph <rivervalleyph@...>wrote:
>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Emily, I can agree a bit, as I have seen a few really tall haffies with
> not
> > > the bone they should have for their size, however, I myself have a
> coming
> > > four year old that is 60"s and growing. NOPE, I didn't feed him miracle
> > > grow- I don't know what happened- his dam is 58 1/4", his sire was 57
> 1/2"s,
> > > his fullsiblings are all shorter! However, my point will be this- he is
> 60"
> > > right, his bone is 7 3/4"s, his canon bone looks larger than this, he
> has
> > > bone. His dam's bone is 7 1/4+, his sires bone is 7 1/2", however if
> you saw
> > > his sire you would think he is much lighter in bone, and you would
> think his
> > > dam is heavier in bone. Now, his full sisters- one has a bone of just
> over
> > > 7"s. she is 57", the other has a bone of 7 3/8 and she is 58"s. And
> here is
> > > the big boy with more bone and more height, and not something I bred
> for
> > > intentionally! So, I can say that I think for this colt, he has a lot
> of
> > > bone even though he is a big boy to me. I know their are haflingers
> that are
> > > 62+"s as well, but I think I would not want one that big no matter the
> bone,
> > > if I wanted a Suffolks, I would go buy one.
> > > So, my point here is that the few giants that have aroused from my very
> own
> > > breeding program, do have a bone to height ratio that is still quit
> similar.
> > > And, that even in the "good ole days" the haflingers bone on a 54" pony
> was
> > > never 8"s. I do know this as I have access to the records and pictures
> of
> > > the temple farm haflingers. Yes, we have as a whole bred for a finer
> bone,
> > > but by that I don't mean that the average 57" haflinger has lost much
> bone
> > > if you were to measure and compare to older haflingers, I simply mean
> that
> > > we have bred for a flatter bone and as a breed whole, have tried to get
> away
> > > from the round bone. We have added height and I too have seen many
> cases of
> > > too light in the bone department for their size, but I don't know that
> all
> > > of this is what breeders intentions are. We are seeing the influence of
> > > "outside" blood once and a while and of course, as soon as someone
> see's
> > > that haflinger outside the "average" they assume the whole breed is
> headed
> > > towards destruction or in some cases, you get the person that thinks
> thats
> > > what the breed should be. There are however, enough haflingers in the
> gene
> > > pool to equalize the problems we see and with good concentrated efforts
> by
> > > breeders these few abnormalities can be resolved. For instance- I
> gelded my
> > > giant! Yes he is very nice a big mover, all that, but he is too big.
> > > The real problem to me is that there are a lot of folks that have gone
> mad
> > > with wanting a haflinger over 15 hands and promoting it! Now, everyone
> has a
> > > right to do as they want I know, but I do not agree. If you have ever
> seen
> > > the haflingers here at Rivervalley you will have a hard time finding
> one
> > > that is truely small boned or truely huge boned. You will think that
> > > different horses are "lighter" or heavier, however, you will be shocked
> if I
> > > went and haltered them and measured them for you! Many of the horses
> you see
> > > and make your thoughts on, are very much the same as the next one, they
> do
> > > have differences in heart girth depth, the length of forearm and the
> length
> > > of canon bone, and these things can really trick your mind. Here is an
> > > example, when Alto was here, and we also had our young stallion Merl,
> people
> > > would come here and think Alto was taller and lighter in bone. However,
> Alto
> > > was 1 1/2"s shorter! Alto's bone was just barely less than Merls. Just
> > > standing still though you would think Merl was shorter. Here's the key-
> Merl
> > > is very deep in his heart girth. He is shorter in canon bone length,
> but
> > > longer in the forearm than Alto. Therefore he looks much different just
> > > standing in a corral. If he moves though, you would think Merl was a 15
> > > hands horse! So many people say that he grows when he moves- because he
> > > really lifts his front end up and drives his rear end. So, once people
> would
> > > see him move, they think he is huge!
> > > So my point here is that the eye can be decieving and until you reach
> down
> > > with a measure tape, keep that in mind. You may be surprised. Round
> bone
> > > looks heavier than flat bone, and this is and was a big thing in some
> of the
> > > original Temple Smith Farm horses and the haflinger breed for a bit. I
> see
> > > less and less of round bone and more and more flat bone, and that is a
> good
> > > thing! With that though comes the appearance of loosing bone.
> > > Just my thoughts, and again I know what you are talking about- I too
> have
> > > seen it first hand. It however, makes me disgusted to think others
> might
> > > really "want" or "breed" for that! I have also seen the haflinger being
> 59
> > > or 60"s and having a foot like a 13hand hackney! Thats another issue
> > > though... My horses have feet, I wouldn't and couldn't keep a horse
> with no
> > > foot- I live on the mountains- if we don't have dang good feet and legs
> than
> > > our horses don't have any chance in mountain pasture!
> > > So, there are variables and indeed there are those haflingers with not
> > > enough hoof, not enough bone, but as an average I don't personally have
> that
> > > problem. My horses are all pretty average I'd say. My mares bone are
> all 7 -
> > > 7 1/2", my studs n geldings are all 7 to 1/4 to 3/4. There girths are
> all
> > > around 70"s when in good flesh. My lowest girthed horse is 68"s, my
> largest
> > > is 74"s, the average is 70's, the height around here, well the mares
> all
> > > average 57-58", some are 56"s and some are 58"S, the tallest mare here
> is 58
> > > 3/4"s, the shortest mare is 55"s. The tallest stud is 58 3/4"s, the
> shortest
> > > is 56"s (ole man who is 24 and I think he shrunk with age, he used to
> be
> > > 57"s!) The average gelding here is 57"s. You know the tall guy, the
> shortest
> > > is 55"s and should mature around 56"s. Shoe sizes range from O to 3's,
> > > depending on age alot too of course. Average is 1 or 2. So, that is
> what I
> > > meant I guess. The smaller mares have smaller bone, the smaller gelding
> have
> > > smaller bone, the old stud out here has good bone but is not a course
> old
> > > boned critter either.
> > > So, just my thoughts and my breeding program. I know many others are
> > > similar as well. So, I just don't see the point of getting so excited
> about
> > > splitting haflingers into groups, because to me, they are haflingers! I
> > > still want that haflinger I can do ANYTHING with all in the same horse!
> > > I have honestly not owned a haflinger that "broke down" or had feet or
> leg
> > > issues. And I don't want to own one either. I'll keep my breeding
> program
> > > for now... others seem to like it too!
> > > Sincerely,
> > > Dawn
> > > --- In haflingerfriends@yahoogroups.com<haflingerfriends%40yahoogroups.com>
> <haflingerfriends%40yahoogroups.com>,
>
> > > briarcroft@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Dawn, I think your history lesson is pretty right on except one
> thing.
> > > You are right that cannon bone circumference doesn't vary much in
> today's
> > > Haflingers but the problem is the taller 15 hand plus ones have the
> same
> > > bone as the 14 hand ones. That is a much less substantial horse as a
> result.
> > > >
> > > > And I agree about the large heads--they came quickly in 1-2
> generations
> > > as the Tirol breeders tried to breed quickly for height and neck
> length.
> > > Unattractive, absolutely. Temperament also took a backseat during those
> > > years, in my opinion so I disagree with Kiola on that.
> > > >
> > > > Emily
> > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: "rivervalleyph" <rivervalleyph@>
> > > > Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 21:22:12
> > > > To: <haflingerfriends@yahoogroups.com<haflingerfriends%40yahoogroups.com>
> <haflingerfriends%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > >
> > > > Subject: [haflingerfriends] Re: Into the fold ....breeding out the
> Drafty
> > > >
> > > > OH BOY!!
> > > > DO I HAVE A LOT TO SAY HERE! Hold on....
> > > > First of all, the horses from Temple Smiths Farm to begin with.... I
> will
> > > leave some of my thoughts out for everyones comfort...however, those
> very
> > > horses were the foundation of Mr. McArthur and my granpas' herd, as
> they
> > > were buisness partners. So, with that being said I will tell you that
> yes,
> > > that original haflinger imported into this country was the smaller,
> draftier
> > > type. However, they were also not Austrias top horses I hope you
> realize.
> > > AND, in those days the haflinger was only bought to wander the hills
> for the
> > > Temple's to view! Literally. Then they drove them a bit. However,
> haflingers
> > > gained in popularity throughout the pony pulling world in those times.
> Now
> > > coming into the 60's and 70's the pony pullers were loosing ground and
> like
> > > many other disciplines, became a vanishing breed, furthermore the
> haflinger
> > > became less and less popular in this area as well because other pullers
> made
> > > more rules not allowing haflingers to pull against them either by
> weight, or
> > > by size. Because the haflinger was a very strong pulling pony and hard
> to
> > > beat if in good condition. How do I know this you ask? Well, granpa was
> one
> > > of those pullers! And he worked the haflingers in the woods as he still
> > > today owns a sawmill.
> > > > Now, time progressed.... the haflinger progressed too. The first
> > > haflingers in this country well, lets just say many of them weren't
> nice
> > > moving, good footed horses. So, after the pulling trend ended, in came
> the
> > > draft show ponies. However, the haflingers needed to be able to move
> much
> > > better than just shuffle along. So, for years that was exactly granpa's
> > > intent, he bred to feet and legs. At that time there was no big want
> for
> > > size increase, as the pony laws back east state that a pony must be
> 14.2 and
> > > under. Without plates. So, the haflinger was bred by many to be draft
> > > ponies. Now think of this, can a fancy moving, high stepping, getting
> their
> > > feet out their in front of them type of pony be wider than it is tall?
> I
> > > think not. But what most of you don't seem to understand is that the
> average
> > > haflinger even in those times, were not tanks with no legs. They may
> have
> > > been overfed, which as you all know isn't hard to do with haffies, but
> > > without the extra weight, they aren't much different than a lot of
> others.
> > > > SO.... we lead into todays haflinger in the USA.
> > > > Their are those of you that group haflingers as either being old
> style or
> > > new, or draft verses modern. I will say that their are exeptions to
> both
> > > ends, some very short and stocky haflingers and some very refined and
> tall
> > > haflingers, no doubt. However, the average haflinger across this
> country and
> > > I would go so far as to say across Europe as well, is very much the
> same.
> > > How much they weigh is very different, how much they look different at
> > > different times in their life is again different, however, almost every
> > > haflinger is within 1/4-1/2" the same in bone. Don't believe me? Go
> find
> > > every haflinger you can and measure their bone. Almost every haflinger
> out
> > > there if they were to weigh in good condition, not fat, not skinny, but
> all
> > > about the same flesh would all girth within inches of one another.
> Don't
> > > believe me? I will say this, I have had the pleasure of owning 100's of
> > > haflingers, all of which I have girthed, measured the circumfrence of
> bone,
> > > and height. I can't honestly single out one in my mind that was soo
> > > different that I can honestly remember them by it. My mom has too
> haflingers
> > > that are shorter than some of mine, however, even in the 70's the
> sought
> > > after haflinger was between 56-58"s in height, and her girls are out of
> > > mares that were 58"s and a stud that was 56"- they are 55"s. Do you
> think
> > > they were bred to be 55"s? Nope, they were bred to be between 56 and
> 58"s.
> > > Just so happens they are 55". Does my mom love them. YOU BET! Do they
> > > measure differnt than most of mine, nope, other than one inch in
> height!
> > > They have the same bone and the same girth. Sounds funny you think I'm
> sure,
> > > but it isn't.
> > > > Yes, there are those people out there that are going beyond what some
> of
> > > us like, however, their are MANY of us that still want the same
> horse...the
> > > all around pleasure horse.
> > > > I have said it before and will say it again, just as granpa did with
> > > Lawana I have done with some of mine and that is to win with the same
> horse,
> > > draft hitch classed and pleasure classes in the same day! Granpa did it
> more
> > > than once at the National Show, before they changed the rules (ha) and
> I
> > > have done it too! How you say? Harness up and watch me!
> > > > The goal for many breeders out there is not to detter from the
> haflingers
> > > strong points, but to gain in their weaknesses. Is everyone breeding
> for a
> > > 15+ hand haflinger? I Sure Don't Think So!
> > > > Does it happen? Of course. Just like my mom's mares are short. They
> are
> > > not little tanks however (they are too fat I will admit) but they still
> are
> > > beautiful little, well porportioned haflingers that fit into that exact
> > > catagory of a all around pleaasure! Some of you may think you have the
> OLD
> > > Style, or the NEW style, but what you really have is a haflinger! Feed
> him
> > > to be as wide as you want, shoe him to satisfy your wants, trim his
> mane and
> > > tail anyway you like, he is still a haflinger, not so different than
> any
> > > other if you would have them all shod the same, weighing in good not
> over
> > > fat flesh, and manes all the same length.
> > > > ALSO, one other disturbing thing to me... The original haflinger from
> > > Temple Smiths farm as well as Austria and other parts of the country
> had a
> > > gorgous, araby head, not a big head! I am not saying that all
> haflingers
> > > have that head today, it is sought after however, and known by almost
> all
> > > breeders to be the "old style" head that people wish they had more of
> today!
> > > > With all of that off my mind... I can go back to work now! I have a
> two
> > > year old stud colt I am working with, as well as I have just haltered
> three
> > > colts that are new to halters...So I better go get back to work.
> > > > If you are really confused now...I understand. My main point. Most
> > > haflingers are avereage. Most could be used for either draft or
> pleasure.
> > > Just fit them to suit your needs and you will soon find out!
> > > > Sincerely, knowing this will chap someones rearend,
> > > > Dawn
> > > >
> > > > --- In haflingerfriends@yahoogroups.com<haflingerfriends%40yahoogroups.com>
> <haflingerfriends%40yahoogroups.com>,
>
> > > "Suzy Moren" <critterkeeper1@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks John... I certainly agree with you, except for the last
> > > paragraph. "People" do want the small drafty types, we're just not the
> show
> > > folks with big bucks who control what happens to the breed. So much
> upset
> > > over the Spotted Haflingers, which I absolutely do not agree with, but
> no
> > > concern at all over the loss of the historic little chunky heart
> stealers.
> > > Also, I agree that they are show stoppers. Every where I go with my
> little
> > > wide butt gelding people ask about him and admire him. I was on a trail
> ride
> > > recently, and a woman was there riding the most majestic Fresian mare
> I've
> > > ever seen. She rode up to me and said "your horse is beautiful!! Made
> my
> > > day!
> > > > > Suzy
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > From: John Borucki ...
> > > > > To: haflingerfriends@yahoogroups.com<haflingerfriends%40yahoogroups.com>
> <haflingerfriends%40yahoogroups.com>
>
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 7:23 AM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [haflingerfriends] re: Into the fold ....breeding out
> the
> > > Drafty
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes the drafty Haflinger Horse. When I first say my first Haflinger
> it
> > > was
> > > > > at Temple Smith Farms, in Wadsworth Illinois. I was a apprentice
> > > Horseshoer
> > > > > and the guy I was learning from did Temple Smiths horseshoeing.
> > > > >
> > > > > What brought me to this breed was the drafty good looking
> horse/pony
> > > type
> > > > > horse. If you go back in the registry you had Drafty type
> > > Haflingers....old
> > > > > breeders are still around but just not breeding anymore. They can
> shed
> > > some
> > > > > light on this subject...
> > > > >
> > > > > Our little drafty stile haflingers were the show stoppers! Then
> came
> > > the
> > > > > tall leggy, skinny type haflinger. The small breeder was not in
> demand
> > > > > anymore. Only big Dollar horses, tall,skinny Haflingers were
> showing
> > > up.
> > > > > Prices fell...well before the recession and sales fell.
> > > > >
> > > > > The affordable Little Haflingers were OUT. So was the people that
> paid
> > > into
> > > > > the registry. The Haflinger Highlite stopped publishing. Why?
> > > > >
> > > > > Judges won't even look at the small type Haflingers. The tread was
> > > turning
> > > > > and not to the good either. The registry is in the shape it is to
> day
> > > > > because the modern type haflingers are here and the old style
> drafty
> > > horses
> > > > > are out.
> > > > >
> > > > > The people that like the tall and skinny type Haflingers can enjoy
> > > there
> > > > > registry. The small breeder. Didn't bring the Skinny type
> Haflingers
> > > here. I
> > > > > enjoyed the Drafty type.
> > > > >
> > > > > Let's stop all the complaining. You buy what you like to look at.
> Do
> > > not buy
> > > > > the little guys for resale...! people don't want them
> anymore...there
> > > not
> > > > > modern.....
> > > > >
> > > > > John J. Borucki
> > > > > Farrier Service
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: <RkyMtnTrls@>
> > > > > To: <haflingerfriends@yahoogroups.com<haflingerfriends%40yahoogroups.com>
> <haflingerfriends%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > >
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 8:19 AM
> > > > > Subject: [haflingerfriends] re: Into the fold ....breeding out the
> > > Drafty
> > > > >
> > > > > > "...a pet peave of mine... the breeding out of the drafty type
> Hafy.
> > > I've
> > > > > > never understood why people buy a certain breed of horse and then
> > > decide
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > "change it" to suit what they choose to do with it..."modern"
> > > > > > haflingers...to me look more and more like Arabs every day...
> there
> > > are a
> > > > > > lot of people
> > > > > > who love our drafty wide loads!..."
> > > > > > .
> > > > > > Hello, Suzy -
> > > > > > My girl Ellie is also a drafty n' short Haffie (non-reg.) Her
> > > > > > photo here_rockymountaintrails.net/TrailBuddies_
> > > > > > (http://rockymountaintrails.net/TrailBuddies) (first on the
> left)
> > > > > > shows her in top shape, on our
> > > > > > ride to the top of the Continental Divide. You can see there -
> short,
> > > > > > round, very drafty old-style Haffie. (The photo to the right,
> she's
> > > > > > actually
> > > > > > standing on a slope and shadowed, it was taken on the same trip -
> > > doesn't
> > > > > > really show her conformation well.)
> > > > > > I don't have anything against the modern Haffie - and understand
> > > > > > their place in the show ring & breeder's needs.
> > > > > > For my personal like in build type ... what I wanted was a short,
> > > > > > muscled trail buddy ... the shorter the better! At the same time,
> > > didn't
> > > > > > want to break my mount's back, LOL! I am a hair under 5' tall,
> but
> > > not,
> > > > > > welllllllll, skinny ;-) So, the two breeds that really filled
> that
> > > > > > description (short and drafty) were the Haflinger and Fjord.
> > > > > > Fjords are gorgeous but also PRICEY!! Haflingers are beautiful
> > > > > > and more affordable.
> > > > > > I tried both types - and like with any breed of horse, one has to
> > > > > > hunt a bit before finding a good match (good for rider & for the
> > > horse.)
> > > > > > My Fjord trial ended up in two hospital trips, with permanent
> damage
> > > -
> > > > > > not
> > > > > > because of breed but because of a nut-case horse ;-) My two
> > > > > > Haflinger
> > > > > > trials, prior to Ellie, met the short n' drafty build, but were
> both
> > > > > > barely
> > > > > > describeable as "half trained" and much hotter than my
> > > enjoyment-level.
> > > > > > (Who wants "hot" on the side of a cliff?????) ;-) Ellie is my
> third
> > > > > > Haffie trial - and it's a MATCH, halleluja!! :-) Short, drafty,
> > > > > > cold-blooded, and reliable. She's not a saint - has the same
> > > pony-tude
> > > > > > (attitude)
> > > > > > of any "pony" breed .... but she is still a relaxing fun ride
> that I
> > > can
> > > > > > trust in the Rockies when we're mountain riding. Dispite no
> > > registration
> > > > > > papers - she's my riding partner till one of us can not
> physically do
> > > it
> > > > > > anymore. (I have scoliosis & arthritis, with limited years before
> I
> > > can
> > > > > > no
> > > > > > longer ride.)
> > > > > > Just wanted to chime in - I'm in the same boat - LOVE the
> > > > > > Haflinger breed for the classic old-style build! :-) When hunting
> > > > > > for my
> > > > > > buddy, I passed up all other breeds - because I wanted a short
> draft
> > > ....
> > > > > > no
> > > > > > Quarterhorses, no Arabs, no Icelandics .... wanted that little
> draft
> > > > > > partner! ;-)
> > > > > > .
> > > > > > Sher & Ellie in CO
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > > >
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