Thanks again for more information and clarification. This information and dialog would make for a very good article in the AHR newsletter. Your breaking it down Emily will clear up the round and flat bone for those wondering what that means.
Laura of Cal.
--- In haflingerfriends@yahoogroups.com, Emily Gibson <briarcroft@...> wrote:
>
> Dawn,
>
> in my opinion (and based on Dr. Deb Bennett's analysis of ideal bone to
> height ratios, anything under an 8 inch cannon circumference on a 15 hand +
> horse is way too small. Here is one conformation analysis (Cherry Hill) that I
> could find quickly on the web, also dealing with the "flat vs round" cannon
> issue. The cannon bone is anatomically round--that is simply how bones are made, not
> flat at all--it is the appearance of "flatness" caused by the placement of the tendons that is considered ideal. It really doesn't have any functional significance that I'm aware of whatsoever. It is aesthetics.
>
> "Quality is depicted by "flat" bone (indicated by the cannon bone), clean
> joints, sharply defined (refined) features, smooth muscling, overall
> blending of parts, and a fine, smooth hair coat. "Flat" bone is a misnomer
> because the cannon bone is round. Flat actually refers to well-defined
> tendons that stand out cleanly behind the cannon bone and give the
> impression the bone is "flat".
>
> *Substance* refers to thickness, depth, and breadth of bone, muscle, and
> other tissues. Muscle substance is described by type of muscle, thickness of
> muscle, length of muscles, and position of attachment. Other substance
> factors include weight of the horse, height of the horse, size of the hoofs,
> depth of the heart girth and flank, and spring of rib.
>
> Best viewed from the rear, spring of rib refers to the curve of the ribs; a
> flat-ribbed horse may have inadequate heart and lung space. Besides
> providing room for the heart, lungs, and digestive tract, a well-sprung rib
> cage provides a natural, comfortable place for a rider's legs. A slab-sided
> horse with a shallow heart girth is difficult to sit properly; an extremely
> wide-barreled horse can be stressful to the rider's legs.
>
> Substance of bone indicates adequacy of the ratio of the bone to the horse's
> body weight. Bone measurement is taken on an adult horse around the
> circumference of the cannon bone just below the knee. For riding horses, an
> adequate ratio is approximately .7 inches of bone for every 100# of body
> weight. Using that thumb rule, a 1200 # horse should have an 8.4 inch
> circumference cannon bone for his weight to be adequately supported."
>
> Here are two reprints of posts I did on this list in the past about this
> issue:
>
>
> Eight Belles' break down at the end of the Kentucky Derby may not feel
> connected to Haflingers, but there is a powerful lesson here for
> Haflinger breeders. I am well aware the increasing frequency of break
> downs like this in Thoroughbred front legs is attributable to the drive
> by breeders to get the most muscle on top of the lightest bone in order
> to attain the greatest speed.
>
> This is not how a horse was meant to be built although they are meant to
> be able to run fast to escape predators. They have become anatomically
> dysfunctional. The Thoroughbred, beautiful breed that it is, has been
> bred to a point of becoming unable to sustain its own weight under the
> powerful forces of speed and pounding forward momentum.
>
> This is a tragedy, as emotionally wrenching as Barbaro's injury and long
> ago, Ruffian's fatal injury in her match race.
>
> I only hope the Thoroughbreds with denser and greater diameter of bone
> will be bred, even if it is sacrificing speed. At least there wouldn't
> be this kind of needless suffering of an innocent animal.
>
> As a close observer of Haflinger breeding practices in north Tyrol over
> the years, I have documented, using the data provided by the Tyrolian
> Breeders' Association in their publications, the practice of breeding
> for a taller animal with a more refined (i.e. thinner) cannon bone
> circumference. I also spoke directly with the director of the
> Association, Herr Johannes Schweisgut, several years ago about the
> trend, and gave him the data that showed the trend clearly from
> early in the 20th century to early in the 21st century. He denied there
> was a change from the "original" Haflinger, but the data preserved from
> his father tells another story.
>
> I'm very pleased to see in the last 2-3 years of three year old stallion
> approvals in north Tyrol, this trend seems to have been slowed. In the
> current crop of approvals, there are only two (Altare and Whetu) who are
> almost 15 hands with cannon bones under 8 inches circumference. There
> are several stallions who are under 14-2 hands with the same cannon
> circumference so their weight bearing capacity is strengthened by the
> sturdier bone. This is a very encouraging trend! With the wisdom of
> the inspectors and the breeders, we will preserve the powerful and
> strong bone that makes our breed unique and avoid the deadly extremes in
> other popular breeds.
>
>
> Mr. Schweisgut could use a
> physics lesson or a basic structural engineering course. I brought up
> this very point in my discussion with him at the American Haflinger
> Registry Inspection and Classification in 2004 and he was quite
> insistent there had been no change in the cannon bone over the years
> even though I had documentation from Austrian publications to the
> contrary. He made special mention of this in his speech at the World
> Show in 2005 because a number of breeders other than myself have been
> very concerned about this trend that is fully sanctioned and
> encouraged by the Tyrolian Breeders' Association and their inspection
> process. In fact, in the case of inspecting my mare, Mr. Schweisgut
> specifically looked at cannon measurement first in his assessment of
> her and as it was 20 cm (in a 15-1 hand mare), it was not a horse that
> interested him or that he would consider breeding quality.
>
> The same cannon bone circumference on a horse that is in fact 4 inches
> taller than 25 years ago is in fact a significant change in
> conformation and weight carrying ability. It is also interesting that
> his father's tracking of cannon bone circumference in his past books
> don't quite match Hannes' assessment. The cannon has gotten smaller
> over the past century as the height has gone up. What does this
> eventually lead to? *Barbaro* syndrome--the leg that snaps under stress.
>
> This is one of the many things I'm concerned is being lost in
> translation among breeders who care deeply about the future of the
> breed. I am not an advocate of stumpy stocky Haflingers as that is
> clearly not (if you look at the original Haflinger founding stallions)
> how the breed began. They have substance, yes. They have muscling,
> yes. They have bone, yes. They have thicker necks, yes. They have a
> delightful and friendly noble face and head, yes. They have a
> substantial engine and medium midsection, yes. They have some
> interesting coloring that included dark sorrel, golden sorrel, dorsal
> stripes and variable color manes and tails, yes.
>
> Here is the text in the article written by the Southern Tirol Breeders
> Association about 249 Folie, the "father" of Haflingers:
>
> "The cross-breeding of the oriental stallion "133 El Bedavi XXII" with
> a local mare of Galician origins in 1874 in Sluderno/Schluderns, South
> Tyrol, at the farm of one of these breeders, Josef Folie, gave rise to
> a golden sorrel with dorsal stripe that was named "249 Folie". No one
> imagined then that this was the beginning of a new breed, the
> "Haflinger", that at that time was a popular South Tyrolean term for
> `pack horse'.Evidently Folie had the ideal features for military use
> and was bought as a studhorse. There are no known photographs or
> paintings of Folie but the Commander of the stables, Count Huyn, gave
> an enthusiastic description of the horse as a bundle of muscles with
> Arab distinction, long, sloped shoulders, strong back, straight rump,
> strong muscles and joints, long and correct stride and a good
> temperament. His size was described as: Withers height 158 cm (by tape
> measure), girth 182 cm, cannon 20.5 cm."
>
> I certainly wish I could have seen what that stallion looked like! I
> certainly wish there were more people like Kerstin who really care
> about the history of the breed and not just what will sell now.
>
> Emily
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 6:24 AM, rivervalleyph <rivervalleyph@...>wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Emily, I can agree a bit, as I have seen a few really tall haffies with not
> > the bone they should have for their size, however, I myself have a coming
> > four year old that is 60"s and growing. NOPE, I didn't feed him miracle
> > grow- I don't know what happened- his dam is 58 1/4", his sire was 57 1/2"s,
> > his fullsiblings are all shorter! However, my point will be this- he is 60"
> > right, his bone is 7 3/4"s, his canon bone looks larger than this, he has
> > bone. His dam's bone is 7 1/4+, his sires bone is 7 1/2", however if you saw
> > his sire you would think he is much lighter in bone, and you would think his
> > dam is heavier in bone. Now, his full sisters- one has a bone of just over
> > 7"s. she is 57", the other has a bone of 7 3/8 and she is 58"s. And here is
> > the big boy with more bone and more height, and not something I bred for
> > intentionally! So, I can say that I think for this colt, he has a lot of
> > bone even though he is a big boy to me. I know their are haflingers that are
> > 62+"s as well, but I think I would not want one that big no matter the bone,
> > if I wanted a Suffolks, I would go buy one.
> > So, my point here is that the few giants that have aroused from my very own
> > breeding program, do have a bone to height ratio that is still quit similar.
> > And, that even in the "good ole days" the haflingers bone on a 54" pony was
> > never 8"s. I do know this as I have access to the records and pictures of
> > the temple farm haflingers. Yes, we have as a whole bred for a finer bone,
> > but by that I don't mean that the average 57" haflinger has lost much bone
> > if you were to measure and compare to older haflingers, I simply mean that
> > we have bred for a flatter bone and as a breed whole, have tried to get away
> > from the round bone. We have added height and I too have seen many cases of
> > too light in the bone department for their size, but I don't know that all
> > of this is what breeders intentions are. We are seeing the influence of
> > "outside" blood once and a while and of course, as soon as someone see's
> > that haflinger outside the "average" they assume the whole breed is headed
> > towards destruction or in some cases, you get the person that thinks thats
> > what the breed should be. There are however, enough haflingers in the gene
> > pool to equalize the problems we see and with good concentrated efforts by
> > breeders these few abnormalities can be resolved. For instance- I gelded my
> > giant! Yes he is very nice a big mover, all that, but he is too big.
> > The real problem to me is that there are a lot of folks that have gone mad
> > with wanting a haflinger over 15 hands and promoting it! Now, everyone has a
> > right to do as they want I know, but I do not agree. If you have ever seen
> > the haflingers here at Rivervalley you will have a hard time finding one
> > that is truely small boned or truely huge boned. You will think that
> > different horses are "lighter" or heavier, however, you will be shocked if I
> > went and haltered them and measured them for you! Many of the horses you see
> > and make your thoughts on, are very much the same as the next one, they do
> > have differences in heart girth depth, the length of forearm and the length
> > of canon bone, and these things can really trick your mind. Here is an
> > example, when Alto was here, and we also had our young stallion Merl, people
> > would come here and think Alto was taller and lighter in bone. However, Alto
> > was 1 1/2"s shorter! Alto's bone was just barely less than Merls. Just
> > standing still though you would think Merl was shorter. Here's the key- Merl
> > is very deep in his heart girth. He is shorter in canon bone length, but
> > longer in the forearm than Alto. Therefore he looks much different just
> > standing in a corral. If he moves though, you would think Merl was a 15
> > hands horse! So many people say that he grows when he moves- because he
> > really lifts his front end up and drives his rear end. So, once people would
> > see him move, they think he is huge!
> > So my point here is that the eye can be decieving and until you reach down
> > with a measure tape, keep that in mind. You may be surprised. Round bone
> > looks heavier than flat bone, and this is and was a big thing in some of the
> > original Temple Smith Farm horses and the haflinger breed for a bit. I see
> > less and less of round bone and more and more flat bone, and that is a good
> > thing! With that though comes the appearance of loosing bone.
> > Just my thoughts, and again I know what you are talking about- I too have
> > seen it first hand. It however, makes me disgusted to think others might
> > really "want" or "breed" for that! I have also seen the haflinger being 59
> > or 60"s and having a foot like a 13hand hackney! Thats another issue
> > though... My horses have feet, I wouldn't and couldn't keep a horse with no
> > foot- I live on the mountains- if we don't have dang good feet and legs than
> > our horses don't have any chance in mountain pasture!
> > So, there are variables and indeed there are those haflingers with not
> > enough hoof, not enough bone, but as an average I don't personally have that
> > problem. My horses are all pretty average I'd say. My mares bone are all 7 -
> > 7 1/2", my studs n geldings are all 7 to 1/4 to 3/4. There girths are all
> > around 70"s when in good flesh. My lowest girthed horse is 68"s, my largest
> > is 74"s, the average is 70's, the height around here, well the mares all
> > average 57-58", some are 56"s and some are 58"S, the tallest mare here is 58
> > 3/4"s, the shortest mare is 55"s. The tallest stud is 58 3/4"s, the shortest
> > is 56"s (ole man who is 24 and I think he shrunk with age, he used to be
> > 57"s!) The average gelding here is 57"s. You know the tall guy, the shortest
> > is 55"s and should mature around 56"s. Shoe sizes range from O to 3's,
> > depending on age alot too of course. Average is 1 or 2. So, that is what I
> > meant I guess. The smaller mares have smaller bone, the smaller gelding have
> > smaller bone, the old stud out here has good bone but is not a course old
> > boned critter either.
> > So, just my thoughts and my breeding program. I know many others are
> > similar as well. So, I just don't see the point of getting so excited about
> > splitting haflingers into groups, because to me, they are haflingers! I
> > still want that haflinger I can do ANYTHING with all in the same horse!
> > I have honestly not owned a haflinger that "broke down" or had feet or leg
> > issues. And I don't want to own one either. I'll keep my breeding program
> > for now... others seem to like it too!
> > Sincerely,
> > Dawn
> > --- In haflingerfriends@yahoogroups.com<haflingerfriends%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > briarcroft@ wrote:
> > >
> > > Dawn, I think your history lesson is pretty right on except one thing.
> > You are right that cannon bone circumference doesn't vary much in today's
> > Haflingers but the problem is the taller 15 hand plus ones have the same
> > bone as the 14 hand ones. That is a much less substantial horse as a result.
> > >
> > > And I agree about the large heads--they came quickly in 1-2 generations
> > as the Tirol breeders tried to breed quickly for height and neck length.
> > Unattractive, absolutely. Temperament also took a backseat during those
> > years, in my opinion so I disagree with Kiola on that.
> > >
> > > Emily
> > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: "rivervalleyph" <rivervalleyph@>
> > > Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 21:22:12
> > > To: <haflingerfriends@yahoogroups.com<haflingerfriends%40yahoogroups.com>
> > >
> > > Subject: [haflingerfriends] Re: Into the fold ....breeding out the Drafty
> > >
> > > OH BOY!!
> > > DO I HAVE A LOT TO SAY HERE! Hold on....
> > > First of all, the horses from Temple Smiths Farm to begin with.... I will
> > leave some of my thoughts out for everyones comfort...however, those very
> > horses were the foundation of Mr. McArthur and my granpas' herd, as they
> > were buisness partners. So, with that being said I will tell you that yes,
> > that original haflinger imported into this country was the smaller, draftier
> > type. However, they were also not Austrias top horses I hope you realize.
> > AND, in those days the haflinger was only bought to wander the hills for the
> > Temple's to view! Literally. Then they drove them a bit. However, haflingers
> > gained in popularity throughout the pony pulling world in those times. Now
> > coming into the 60's and 70's the pony pullers were loosing ground and like
> > many other disciplines, became a vanishing breed, furthermore the haflinger
> > became less and less popular in this area as well because other pullers made
> > more rules not allowing haflingers to pull against them either by weight, or
> > by size. Because the haflinger was a very strong pulling pony and hard to
> > beat if in good condition. How do I know this you ask? Well, granpa was one
> > of those pullers! And he worked the haflingers in the woods as he still
> > today owns a sawmill.
> > > Now, time progressed.... the haflinger progressed too. The first
> > haflingers in this country well, lets just say many of them weren't nice
> > moving, good footed horses. So, after the pulling trend ended, in came the
> > draft show ponies. However, the haflingers needed to be able to move much
> > better than just shuffle along. So, for years that was exactly granpa's
> > intent, he bred to feet and legs. At that time there was no big want for
> > size increase, as the pony laws back east state that a pony must be 14.2 and
> > under. Without plates. So, the haflinger was bred by many to be draft
> > ponies. Now think of this, can a fancy moving, high stepping, getting their
> > feet out their in front of them type of pony be wider than it is tall? I
> > think not. But what most of you don't seem to understand is that the average
> > haflinger even in those times, were not tanks with no legs. They may have
> > been overfed, which as you all know isn't hard to do with haffies, but
> > without the extra weight, they aren't much different than a lot of others.
> > > SO.... we lead into todays haflinger in the USA.
> > > Their are those of you that group haflingers as either being old style or
> > new, or draft verses modern. I will say that their are exeptions to both
> > ends, some very short and stocky haflingers and some very refined and tall
> > haflingers, no doubt. However, the average haflinger across this country and
> > I would go so far as to say across Europe as well, is very much the same.
> > How much they weigh is very different, how much they look different at
> > different times in their life is again different, however, almost every
> > haflinger is within 1/4-1/2" the same in bone. Don't believe me? Go find
> > every haflinger you can and measure their bone. Almost every haflinger out
> > there if they were to weigh in good condition, not fat, not skinny, but all
> > about the same flesh would all girth within inches of one another. Don't
> > believe me? I will say this, I have had the pleasure of owning 100's of
> > haflingers, all of which I have girthed, measured the circumfrence of bone,
> > and height. I can't honestly single out one in my mind that was soo
> > different that I can honestly remember them by it. My mom has too haflingers
> > that are shorter than some of mine, however, even in the 70's the sought
> > after haflinger was between 56-58"s in height, and her girls are out of
> > mares that were 58"s and a stud that was 56"- they are 55"s. Do you think
> > they were bred to be 55"s? Nope, they were bred to be between 56 and 58"s.
> > Just so happens they are 55". Does my mom love them. YOU BET! Do they
> > measure differnt than most of mine, nope, other than one inch in height!
> > They have the same bone and the same girth. Sounds funny you think I'm sure,
> > but it isn't.
> > > Yes, there are those people out there that are going beyond what some of
> > us like, however, their are MANY of us that still want the same horse...the
> > all around pleasure horse.
> > > I have said it before and will say it again, just as granpa did with
> > Lawana I have done with some of mine and that is to win with the same horse,
> > draft hitch classed and pleasure classes in the same day! Granpa did it more
> > than once at the National Show, before they changed the rules (ha) and I
> > have done it too! How you say? Harness up and watch me!
> > > The goal for many breeders out there is not to detter from the haflingers
> > strong points, but to gain in their weaknesses. Is everyone breeding for a
> > 15+ hand haflinger? I Sure Don't Think So!
> > > Does it happen? Of course. Just like my mom's mares are short. They are
> > not little tanks however (they are too fat I will admit) but they still are
> > beautiful little, well porportioned haflingers that fit into that exact
> > catagory of a all around pleaasure! Some of you may think you have the OLD
> > Style, or the NEW style, but what you really have is a haflinger! Feed him
> > to be as wide as you want, shoe him to satisfy your wants, trim his mane and
> > tail anyway you like, he is still a haflinger, not so different than any
> > other if you would have them all shod the same, weighing in good not over
> > fat flesh, and manes all the same length.
> > > ALSO, one other disturbing thing to me... The original haflinger from
> > Temple Smiths farm as well as Austria and other parts of the country had a
> > gorgous, araby head, not a big head! I am not saying that all haflingers
> > have that head today, it is sought after however, and known by almost all
> > breeders to be the "old style" head that people wish they had more of today!
> > > With all of that off my mind... I can go back to work now! I have a two
> > year old stud colt I am working with, as well as I have just haltered three
> > colts that are new to halters...So I better go get back to work.
> > > If you are really confused now...I understand. My main point. Most
> > haflingers are avereage. Most could be used for either draft or pleasure.
> > Just fit them to suit your needs and you will soon find out!
> > > Sincerely, knowing this will chap someones rearend,
> > > Dawn
> > >
> > > --- In haflingerfriends@yahoogroups.com<haflingerfriends%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > "Suzy Moren" <critterkeeper1@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Thanks John... I certainly agree with you, except for the last
> > paragraph. "People" do want the small drafty types, we're just not the show
> > folks with big bucks who control what happens to the breed. So much upset
> > over the Spotted Haflingers, which I absolutely do not agree with, but no
> > concern at all over the loss of the historic little chunky heart stealers.
> > Also, I agree that they are show stoppers. Every where I go with my little
> > wide butt gelding people ask about him and admire him. I was on a trail ride
> > recently, and a woman was there riding the most majestic Fresian mare I've
> > ever seen. She rode up to me and said "your horse is beautiful!! Made my
> > day!
> > > > Suzy
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: John Borucki ...
> > > > To: haflingerfriends@yahoogroups.com<haflingerfriends%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 7:23 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [haflingerfriends] re: Into the fold ....breeding out the
> > Drafty
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yes the drafty Haflinger Horse. When I first say my first Haflinger it
> > was
> > > > at Temple Smith Farms, in Wadsworth Illinois. I was a apprentice
> > Horseshoer
> > > > and the guy I was learning from did Temple Smiths horseshoeing.
> > > >
> > > > What brought me to this breed was the drafty good looking horse/pony
> > type
> > > > horse. If you go back in the registry you had Drafty type
> > Haflingers....old
> > > > breeders are still around but just not breeding anymore. They can shed
> > some
> > > > light on this subject...
> > > >
> > > > Our little drafty stile haflingers were the show stoppers! Then came
> > the
> > > > tall leggy, skinny type haflinger. The small breeder was not in demand
> > > > anymore. Only big Dollar horses, tall,skinny Haflingers were showing
> > up.
> > > > Prices fell...well before the recession and sales fell.
> > > >
> > > > The affordable Little Haflingers were OUT. So was the people that paid
> > into
> > > > the registry. The Haflinger Highlite stopped publishing. Why?
> > > >
> > > > Judges won't even look at the small type Haflingers. The tread was
> > turning
> > > > and not to the good either. The registry is in the shape it is to day
> > > > because the modern type haflingers are here and the old style drafty
> > horses
> > > > are out.
> > > >
> > > > The people that like the tall and skinny type Haflingers can enjoy
> > there
> > > > registry. The small breeder. Didn't bring the Skinny type Haflingers
> > here. I
> > > > enjoyed the Drafty type.
> > > >
> > > > Let's stop all the complaining. You buy what you like to look at. Do
> > not buy
> > > > the little guys for resale...! people don't want them anymore...there
> > not
> > > > modern.....
> > > >
> > > > John J. Borucki
> > > > Farrier Service
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: <RkyMtnTrls@>
> > > > To: <haflingerfriends@yahoogroups.com<haflingerfriends%40yahoogroups.com>
> > >
> > > > Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 8:19 AM
> > > > Subject: [haflingerfriends] re: Into the fold ....breeding out the
> > Drafty
> > > >
> > > > > "...a pet peave of mine... the breeding out of the drafty type Hafy.
> > I've
> > > > > never understood why people buy a certain breed of horse and then
> > decide
> > > > > to
> > > > > "change it" to suit what they choose to do with it..."modern"
> > > > > haflingers...to me look more and more like Arabs every day... there
> > are a
> > > > > lot of people
> > > > > who love our drafty wide loads!..."
> > > > > .
> > > > > Hello, Suzy -
> > > > > My girl Ellie is also a drafty n' short Haffie (non-reg.) Her
> > > > > photo here_rockymountaintrails.net/TrailBuddies_
> > > > > (http://rockymountaintrails.net/TrailBuddies) (first on the left)
> > > > > shows her in top shape, on our
> > > > > ride to the top of the Continental Divide. You can see there - short,
> > > > > round, very drafty old-style Haffie. (The photo to the right, she's
> > > > > actually
> > > > > standing on a slope and shadowed, it was taken on the same trip -
> > doesn't
> > > > > really show her conformation well.)
> > > > > I don't have anything against the modern Haffie - and understand
> > > > > their place in the show ring & breeder's needs.
> > > > > For my personal like in build type ... what I wanted was a short,
> > > > > muscled trail buddy ... the shorter the better! At the same time,
> > didn't
> > > > > want to break my mount's back, LOL! I am a hair under 5' tall, but
> > not,
> > > > > welllllllll, skinny ;-) So, the two breeds that really filled that
> > > > > description (short and drafty) were the Haflinger and Fjord.
> > > > > Fjords are gorgeous but also PRICEY!! Haflingers are beautiful
> > > > > and more affordable.
> > > > > I tried both types - and like with any breed of horse, one has to
> > > > > hunt a bit before finding a good match (good for rider & for the
> > horse.)
> > > > > My Fjord trial ended up in two hospital trips, with permanent damage
> > -
> > > > > not
> > > > > because of breed but because of a nut-case horse ;-) My two
> > > > > Haflinger
> > > > > trials, prior to Ellie, met the short n' drafty build, but were both
> > > > > barely
> > > > > describeable as "half trained" and much hotter than my
> > enjoyment-level.
> > > > > (Who wants "hot" on the side of a cliff?????) ;-) Ellie is my third
> > > > > Haffie trial - and it's a MATCH, halleluja!! :-) Short, drafty,
> > > > > cold-blooded, and reliable. She's not a saint - has the same
> > pony-tude
> > > > > (attitude)
> > > > > of any "pony" breed .... but she is still a relaxing fun ride that I
> > can
> > > > > trust in the Rockies when we're mountain riding. Dispite no
> > registration
> > > > > papers - she's my riding partner till one of us can not physically do
> > it
> > > > > anymore. (I have scoliosis & arthritis, with limited years before I
> > can
> > > > > no
> > > > > longer ride.)
> > > > > Just wanted to chime in - I'm in the same boat - LOVE the
> > > > > Haflinger breed for the classic old-style build! :-) When hunting
> > > > > for my
> > > > > buddy, I passed up all other breeds - because I wanted a short draft
> > ....
> > > > > no
> > > > > Quarterhorses, no Arabs, no Icelandics .... wanted that little draft
> > > > > partner! ;-)
> > > > > .
> > > > > Sher & Ellie in CO
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > Community email addresses:
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> > > > >
> > > > > Shortcut URL to this page:
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> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
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> > > >
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> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
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