Greetings to you all from snowy cold Ohio! I have debated about getting into this dicussion but feel as Dawn says, we need to have our voices heard. So here goes....
I agree wholeheartedly and want to thank Jacque, Dawn and Chuck for their well thought out and well "spoken" comments and suggestions. More of us need to be like this, including myself. I agree with Emily, that if we are going to criticize we need to be willing to do something about it. But, when we do step up and try to do something about it and offer suggestions nothing is ever done. I know this from personal experiences. I was asked a year or so after we joined AHR to participate on a committee. I was was happy to step up and help and ready to do whatever they needed of me. In the entire year I "served" on that committee, I was contacted 1 time by the committee chair and that was to welcome me to the committee and to "assign" me my job. I was not asked to participate in any committee meetings and was never contacted again. After my year of serving I guess they no longer needed me and I was not asked again. Throughout the year I was "on" the committee I mentioned it to several board members that I was willing to help and that I had received no contact or responses to my contacts and they said they would "look into it". Nothing was ever done. Kind of leaves a little sour taste in your mouth on how things are run, don't you think? But I have also been asked on several occasions for my input on different aspects and have willing offered any and all assistance I could provide. But I feel when your assitance/advice is not solicited from the AHR then it is not taken seriously. Now this is not meant to flame the current board but it is just trying to paint a picture why so many of us are not as enthusiastic about stepping up. Yes, something needs to be done and I pray the Board will embrace the members ideas and consider them ALL, not just a select few. Everyones' suggestions deserve to be heard and thoughtfully considered since this is a "member owned" non-profit business" (quoted directly from AHR site).
I agree that we are "missing" a large portion of Haflinger Friends by not having some type of system for the non registered Haflingers. The Appaloosa Horse club offers what they call a hardship registration for horses with the Appaloosa characteristics.
Following is directly from the Appy Club handbook:
216. HARDSHIP REGISTRY
A. Geldings and spayed mares which do not meet pedigree requirements or are of unknown pedigree will be accepted for registration if they otherwise meet the requirements for Regular registration and are not ineligible for registration as stated in HORSES NOT ELIGIBLE FOR REGISTRATION.
If the AHR would adopt something similar to this we would not have to worry about the horses registered under this program being bred as they have to be geldings or spayed mares. Just a thought! If the registry would like more information on this I would be happy to provide whatever is needed!
I also feel though that there is a need for breeders and owners to make sure to register and transfer their eligible horses. It is only doing the breed a disservice by not taking that responsibility seriously. Do not punish the breed for the actions of the registry that you may not agree with. When considering if it is a good idea to register or transfer your horse(s) don't think in the present but consider what your decision will mean long term to the breed.
I think I have said enough, but my mind could get working and I could think of something else! :) Please note this is not meant to offend anyone, it is just my thoughts and feelings.
Blessings to all and stay warm (those that are in the colder parts!) :)
Best regards,
Lisa
Ohio
--- In haflingerfriends@yahoogroups.com, "rivervalleyph" <rivervalleyph@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Everyone,
> First I want to say that I feel as though we are all friends, and all here for the breed. That being said, I don't personally care if your horse has papers or not, not that I don't wish you had papers if it is possible, but if not, oh well. Your haflinger is your haflinger and your friend, with or without papers. I can say that other breeds, drafts like percherons and belgians for instance, do not register many of their geldings at all. Because they are geldings. Not to say that I agree with that totally, as I am a breeder and do persue the registration of the haflingers. By registering our geldings, we can further follow the path to success verses failure in our breeding methods. However, if the papers don't end up with that horse, it is not the horses fault. Here is another example of how other registries work in transfering horses: in the Jockey Club, each horse has a registration paper. That paper follows him or her for it's complete life, the same as many other breeds, however, to transfer ownership, you simply flip over the paper, and it is like a title to a car, the owner prints and signs and dates and the new owner does the same. That is it. You don't send the paper anywhere. You keep it and if you sell this horse, you follow suit. So, this is just another idea, but if the cost of paper work is a serious issue, this type of thing might be something to consider.
> Also, you do not have to own a haflinger, registered or not, to be a member of AHR, or attend an AHR function ex: AHR sale or National Show. You don't have to sign a contract that you are going to buy one, or anything like that. You do however, support the haflinger as a breed, support the fact that we have a registry in this country, and support it's members. I can tell you as a member of AHR that I support AHR and although I may disagree with some of the buisness issues, I am a paying and supportng member as I think many people are. If you are not a member of AHR, seriously think about being a member for a year and get the feel yourself. If finaces are in the way and you feel it will compramise you, then hold off. I for one do understand when money is not available, this is the facts of life.
> I think their are many of you out their that can contribute to this discussion. You may feel like you will be attacked or make someone else feel attacked, but without you being open and honest, this breed registry can not and will not change. If you want to better something, first you need to open up and tell about the things that you think might help. Put some thought to it and start writing folks.
> For those of you that take this as a personal attack, get over it. Look at it like this, not everyone can sign up to be on the board of this or that for whatever reasons. However, it is not for you to take personally, but for you to listen and print out what folks here think and come up with and to take these things to the board. Maybe if the board sees new ideas and hears how folks feel about AHR, they will have a better idea how to help AHR. Until others step down, no one new can overturn your existance nor do they want to, so step up and take the bull by the horn and if this is part of your job by being on a committee or board, well- do your job and do not get caught up in this as a personal attack. I don't think anyone on this group feels or wants to feel hurt in anyway, but we do want to improve!
> I will think somemore of different things other breeds do or things I can comeup with to help and when I get that big brain flash, I will return by typing again. I hope you understand.
> Sincerely,
> Dawn in a below zero cold westcliffe, co
>
> --- In haflingerfriends@yahoogroups.com, "sanna4julianne" <sanna4julianne@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I am one of the owners that has an unregistered animal. My gelding Guthrie is by a registered stallion and out of a mare that had issues with transferred papers, so my gelding is not registered. He is no doubt a pure bred Haflinger , but he has been gelded since I won't breed unregistered animals of any sort, what is the point?
> >
> > That being said, I don't hesitate to identify him as a Haflinger, a statement many of you would probably dispute since I don't have any registrations papers. I do have a breeding certificate since I purchased him from his breeder and have a written statement about his mother's background on the off chance that at some point the AHR would recognize half Haflinger animals, as I do have that proof in hand, his poppa's breeding certificate. Does it matter to me that I don't have papers? Maybe a little...but since he is a gelding and I live on the west coast and will probably never attend or show in a recognized show, what does it matter? He is still a wonderful young animal that is a credit to his breed.
> >
> > I do have my eye on a registered mare, not to breed but because she is a wonderful driving animal, and I am totally in love with haflingers.
> >
> > I have been active in the Appaloosa association because I owned, bred and showed Appaloosas, but I have to comment that I have not been particularly inspired to put my money down to join the Haflinger group, actually didn't even know IF I could join since I don't own a registered animal. From an outsider's point of view, it doesn't look like they are very interested in recruiting any new members, what are the incentives? How would it benefit me in the long run?
> >
> > Maybe that could be a focus of those of you that are involved in your group, what can you do to get those of us that are on the fence to join up and participate?
> >
> > I have felt there is a 'them and us' mentality regarding registered and non registered horses and owners, too bad. It seems like it should be an 'us' mentality, we all love these lovely golden animals and wish the very best care, training, husbandry, etc etc. Maybe that can be the goal, develop the 'us', concentrate on the real focus, horses, not papers...
> >
> > I sometimes fear there will be a mentality developed that was shown by a breeder of the breed of dog I have, I wont' say what breed, don't want to point fingers, but this breeder goes so far as to require that puppy buyers sign a legal document that they will not breed their dogs, period, or they will owe her a huge sum on money. She is so sure that only her breeding decisions are correct, that no one else has the mental power to make a decision about proper conformation, etc, that she insists on this provision. I didn't buy my dogs from her, even though I don't breed my dogs, I could not abide her omnipotent attitude.
> >
> > We have to agree that Haflingers have come from animals that were not registered, at some point they were just animals that someone liked and bred to lock in that type. So even if you have papers, if you go back far enough, they were unregistered, doesn't make them any more or less valuable, just like my little Guthrie isn't less valuable to me because his mama's papers weren't transferred and were lost her owner.
> >
> > This has been an interesting discussion, nice bunch of people, I think I like you, lol.
> >
> > Lee
> >
> > --- In haflingerfriends@yahoogroups.com, "chuck.hendershot" <chuck.hendershot@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I think that we are missing an opportunity and it sounds like disenfranchising a number of non-registered Haflinger owners, which I believe is a big mistake for AHR and the breed.
> > >
> > > I guess the thing in this discussion thread that bothers me the most is feeling that we do not want to involve the non-registered owners and purposely exclude them from shows and events. As a breeder and a business person this does not make sense. These owners have been exposed to the versatility and calm nature of the Haflinger and are going to be easy sale opportunities as they look to add to their herd or excuse my term but upgrade to a fully registered animal. While they know the quality of the horses we certainly are not showing these owners and prospective clients the quality of the people involved wit the Haflinger breed. So from my standpoint we have a challenge to work on and I hope that I always welcome a Haflinger owner and try to open the breed to everyone. I may try to sell you a registered animal, but that is what we do, not because I think your animal is less capable because someone else did not care to suppor the breed by registering their animals.
> > >
> > > As a breeder, I agree with Emily that we do not want to do anything that would dilute the breed. We work very hard to produce atheltic and versatile animals with each generation improving from the last. However, I also see the advantage to preventing non-registered animals from becoming breeding stock either to compete against our produce or as foundation stock for an attempt to establish a new breed like the "Spotted Haflinger" which has no requirements or breeding standards. I would be certainly interested in trying to develop a policy or standard for including the non-registered animals within the Haflinger family, especially in exchage for an agreement that the animal would not be bred or if sold that the animal would not be sold to an owner who did not agree to sign the agreement not to breed the animal.
> > >
> > > From an AHR standpoint I can see several opportunities to win in this situation. The first would be an increase in overall membership. Second would be a service for all breeders (large and small) by putting some control over the breeding of non-registered animals. Since we can not stop the "Spotted Haflinger" people from using the name, we certainly do not have any control over the non-registered animals from using the name. If we bring them into the family we gain some control and I can only see this helping the prices for registered animals. Third, a service could be provided for helping any owner that wanted to attempt to prove the "purity" of its animal for registration for a fee. If successful we add to the registry and gain a registration fee.
> > >
> > > I guess my biggest problem with this thread is that the response to people who would like to get more involved with the Haflingers and represent future clients who could buy our poduce is why we cannot do what they are suggesting. We real support their impression of the registered owner and breeder as "snooty" when we should be trying to figure out how to brng them into the family. I would like to see the AHR Board or the membership committee take the non-registered Haflinger owner as a project, to develop some guidelnes to nclude them in the association and not alienate them from the breed. Then I hope we can sell you a registered animal in the future, not because it is necessarily a better or more lovable animal, but because you love Haflingers and enjoy the people associated with these wonderful, athletic and versatile horses.
> > >
> >
>
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