Good to hear that we're on the same page! :-)
Now as for your questions, in short, what worries me about the height issue specifically is that the limits are pushed all the time. I'm not talking about individual breeders or single countries/regions, but about the WHF and the most "influential" countries/regions.
I would not worry if Johannes Schweisgut alone said the ideal haflinger is taller than 15 hands, or if he spoke about North Tyrolean breeding policies only. The problem that I see is that this is a worldwide trend. It was not just Hannes saying that on the WHF judges meeting, ALL the other judges agreed with him! That were judges from Holland, England, Italy, Switzerland, Luxemburg, Denmark, maybe even the US, I don't remember as it's a couple of years ago now. Those people agreeing that the ideal haflinger should be TALLER than 15 hands are the people who decide what haflingers can be breeding in the majority of haflinger breeding countries in the world. So of course their opinion will have a huge impact on the breed. The US is the only country where you can breed "whatever you want" (that is purebred) and still get normal papers.
My question "what should I do" was rhethoric, so you don't have to answer it at all! :-)
As for haflinger breeding organizations in Sweden, we have the same situation as in Denmark now - with one national breeding organization, The Swedish Haflinger Association, with Italy as it's country of origin and another organization, The Swedish Tyrolean Haflinger association, which is part of the Haflinger Pferdezuchtverband Tirol and follow the Tyrolean rules strictly.
Best wishes,
Kerstin
--- In haflingerfriends@yahoogroups.com, "rivervalleyph" <rivervalleyph@...> wrote:
>
> Kerstin,
> I think we are on more of the same page than you might realize. I too have read many books, not just otto's or Johannes's, and do know much of this information, which leads me to the statement that I said before, the original haflinger is not much different than the average haflinger is here in the USA. Now, I know you are in Swedan, and I do not know all of your politics regarding haflingers, however it is neat to hear about them. We too in this country have been discriminated against for the smaller haflingers. Many don't agree with it. However, when I say taller, originally, I do not mean 15 Hands, I simply mean that the average was than dang near the same as the average is here in the USA, which, in my herd and around the many haflingers I've seen around about 57"s. So please don't think I do not agree with you. I sure do!
> I am sorry that in your country you can not breed what you like, but here we can, and it is a privilage that we can. I do not know what you should do about it. I do not know all of the rules in your country regarding the breeding of haflingers, so how on earth am I suppose to answer your question without sounding like a fool. I will not.
> I too have studied many many books, and know too that there is much debate in the history of the haflinger.
> There is also debate on the measurements taken of horses and exactly how accurate these were. There is many debates on wether or not 4" should be deducted, 6" or any? I for one don't know and like you assumed the 4-6" deduction rule of thumb, however, we were not around to know exactly, so we are still assuming. I don't much care that Johannes wants 15H haflingers in his country, I don't much care that anyone else wants 13H haflingers, I know what I want and what I will keep trying to make. I am glad you wrote out some of this for people to read, I think I too wrote something similar to this a few years back, but it is a good refresher for everyone.
> They, the haflingers, were still not tall, not tall to me being over 15H, so I think I am in agreeance with you there.
> I am sorry that Johannes said this, but I do not do buisiness with the man personally and do not support that at all. I do support our haflingers, and although Johannes may be saying this, have you ever been to the Folhenhof? Because quit frankly there are many more average to smaller sized haflingers there than the 15H ones. I know.
> So, he may be trying to do a sales pitch here, but it doesn't mean I agree with him.
> OH YA- I didn't say the original haflinger was not pony sized in height, I said it was not a "DRAFT pony", it was an all purpose family mountain pony that could pull, work, ride, and was enjoyable to have around as well as hardy and sturdy and disease resistant. And either way, haflingers are registered in this country as haflinger horses, not haflinger ponies, regardless of wether they are 13.2 or 14.3, however, our rules state that anything 14.2 and under is considered a pony. A draft pony to me, by the way, is heavier and less agile than the haflinger is to me. It has been in this country a draft pony in the past, no doubt, here in the USA, but this is still not in my mind, what the haflinger is capable of and should be, yes, they should be able to do work, however, I want one that can do anything I ask, be it under harness, saddle, or any other way I dream up!
> So, I just thought maybe you thought I meant tall as being over 15H, and I do not, tall to me for a haflinger is 59-60", but I guess that is where we can easily make mistakes. Again, I am glad to hear from you, and really do hope you post more about the haflinger rules in your country specifically because I am very ignorant on such an issue. Is it the same as Austria's policies? Is it governed by Johannes or what?
> I hope you have a nice evening and thanks again.
> Sincerely,
> Dawn
------------------------------------
Community email addresses:
Post message: haflingerfriends@yahoogroups.com
Subscribe: haflingerfriends-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Unsubscribe: haflingerfriends-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
List owner: haflingerfriends-owner@yahoogroups.com
Shortcut URL to this page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/haflingerfriendsYahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/haflingerfriends/
<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional
<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/haflingerfriends/join
(Yahoo! ID required)
<*> To change settings via email:
haflingerfriends-digest@yahoogroups.com
haflingerfriends-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
haflingerfriends-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
