I'm looking for some concrete suggestions here about how unregistered horses can be "recognized" in some way by the registry so their owners don't feel disenfranchised and would be willing to sign a non-breeding clause if their horse gets some kind of paper. What would the paper say? If they have a known pedigree, they can be DNA'd along with their purebred parents, and at least there can be a paper establishing "Purebred unregistered Haflinger". I'm in full support of that as long as the unregistered Haflinger cannot produce offspring that would be recognized in any way. Is that fair then to the future owners of the inevitable offspring of these "unregistered" purebred Haflingers? Is it a separate studbook that is maintained for purposes of tracking ownership only?
What about horses whose parentage is unknown and may be only part Haflinger? Or they are known to be half-Haflinger (like the "spotted Haflinger")? Do we owe some recognition to those horses and their owners?
I'm asking what this would really look like and whether it really helps the breed in the long run. I love to see these folks and their horses participate in the fun shows and regional association activities, but how does the registry involve them?
Emily
--- In haflingerfriends@yahoogroups.com, "chuck.hendershot" <chuck.hendershot@...> wrote:
>
> I agree with the issues that you raise, however, have we stopped the proliferation of the non-registered Haflinger or the breeding of these animals by ignoring them in the registry? What I am suggesting would help control this proliferation by requiring the owner who worked with the registry for some recognition would agree that this animal would not be bred. Thus limiting some growth in the non-registered animals.
>
> Also as you said in your earlier message the registry has certain obligations that have to be met to provide its services. If we continue to have less and less members the costs to mantain those services have only one direction to go up. There are two possible outcomes to spiralling costs and neither are good for the breed. The on most pertinent to this discussion is that the registry can no longer afford to function which is a maor loss to all the breeders and owners in the US. If we explore new ideas we could possibly solve two issues by expanding the membership, increasing registrations and potentially decreasing fees so that more people will get involved. I do not believe that I know the answers, but I am more inclined to look at positive new alternatives to solve problems then to simply say no because it is not crystal clear from the beginning how it directly supports the objective that was established a number of years ago, especially when that approach may result in the coplete failure of being able to achieve the objective.
>
> --- In haflingerfriends@yahoogroups.com, Emily Gibson <briarcroft@> wrote:
> >
> > Chuck,
> >
> > I sympathize with the desire to bring the non-registered Haflinger owner
> > "into the fold" so to speak and I have, on my own, in a number of ways over
> > the years. On my www.haflingerhorses.com website, I have accepted free ads
> > for unregistered Haflingers in support of those owners, much to the
> > criticism of other Haflinger breeders. However, I cannot begin to tell you
> > the hundreds of ads and pictures I've been sent over the years of "grade
> > Haflingers" that people want to sell on my website that look absolutely
> > nothing like Haflingers, either because they were sold a horse they were
> > told was a Haflinger or they believe they can market their horse as a
> > Haflinger. So my bottom line is: if it looks like a Haflinger in the
> > picture I've been sent, then I'll put it on the Haflinger website as a grade
> > Haflinger. If it doesn't, I won't.
> >
> > How could that possibly work in a registry where our goal and mission is to
> > preserve pedigree integrity and tracking? The whole point of the existence
> > of the registry is to prevent unregistered Haflingers from proliferating.
> > This is not being snooty or stuck up. This is the mission of the
> > organization. I really think it cannot be the registry goal to somehow
> > incorporate Haflingers without proof or pure breeding or
> > pedigree/ownership. Like I said, we are looking at working with hardship
> > situations (owner death, etc) where the transfer couldn't happen properly,
> > but where there is no proof whatsoever that a horse is purebred Haflinger?
> > To me, calling it a Haflinger is only wishful thinking as it can never be
> > proven.
> >
> > What regional associations do with their events is a whole other thing.
> > When I organized events for the Western Haflinger Association, grade
> > Haflingers were welcome because we wanted all people to be involved with the
> > breed, as it was a social/educational opportunity.
> >
> > Those owners who believe they own a Haflinger, but without papers, and there
> > are many of you out there, should still feel an allegiance to the mission
> > of the registry, and support it with their dues dollars. That is what breed
> > support and promotion is all about.
> >
> > Emily
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 3:16 PM, chuck.hendershot <chuck.hendershot@
> > > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > I think that we are missing an opportunity and it sounds like
> > > disenfranchising a number of non-registered Haflinger owners, which I
> > > believe is a big mistake for AHR and the breed.
> > >
> > > I guess the thing in this discussion thread that bothers me the most is
> > > feeling that we do not want to involve the non-registered owners and
> > > purposely exclude them from shows and events. As a breeder and a business
> > > person this does not make sense. These owners have been exposed to the
> > > versatility and calm nature of the Haflinger and are going to be easy sale
> > > opportunities as they look to add to their herd or excuse my term but
> > > upgrade to a fully registered animal. While they know the quality of the
> > > horses we certainly are not showing these owners and prospective clients the
> > > quality of the people involved wit the Haflinger breed. So from my
> > > standpoint we have a challenge to work on and I hope that I always welcome a
> > > Haflinger owner and try to open the breed to everyone. I may try to sell you
> > > a registered animal, but that is what we do, not because I think your animal
> > > is less capable because someone else did not care to suppor the breed by
> > > registering their animals.
> > >
> > > As a breeder, I agree with Emily that we do not want to do anything that
> > > would dilute the breed. We work very hard to produce atheltic and versatile
> > > animals with each generation improving from the last. However, I also see
> > > the advantage to preventing non-registered animals from becoming breeding
> > > stock either to compete against our produce or as foundation stock for an
> > > attempt to establish a new breed like the "Spotted Haflinger" which has no
> > > requirements or breeding standards. I would be certainly interested in
> > > trying to develop a policy or standard for including the non-registered
> > > animals within the Haflinger family, especially in exchage for an agreement
> > > that the animal would not be bred or if sold that the animal would not be
> > > sold to an owner who did not agree to sign the agreement not to breed the
> > > animal.
> > >
> > > From an AHR standpoint I can see several opportunities to win in this
> > > situation. The first would be an increase in overall membership. Second
> > > would be a service for all breeders (large and small) by putting some
> > > control over the breeding of non-registered animals. Since we can not stop
> > > the "Spotted Haflinger" people from using the name, we certainly do not have
> > > any control over the non-registered animals from using the name. If we bring
> > > them into the family we gain some control and I can only see this helping
> > > the prices for registered animals. Third, a service could be provided for
> > > helping any owner that wanted to attempt to prove the "purity" of its animal
> > > for registration for a fee. If successful we add to the registry and gain a
> > > registration fee.
> > >
> > > I guess my biggest problem with this thread is that the response to people
> > > who would like to get more involved with the Haflingers and represent future
> > > clients who could buy our poduce is why we cannot do what they are
> > > suggesting. We real support their impression of the registered owner and
> > > breeder as "snooty" when we should be trying to figure out how to brng them
> > > into the family. I would like to see the AHR Board or the membership
> > > committee take the non-registered Haflinger owner as a project, to develop
> > > some guidelnes to nclude them in the association and not alienate them from
> > > the breed. Then I hope we can sell you a registered animal in the future,
> > > not because it is necessarily a better or more lovable animal, but because
> > > you love Haflingers and enjoy the people associated with these wonderful,
> > > athletic and versatile horses.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
------------------------------------
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