Just a clarification... are you sure it was the "A" line in danger of being lost or the "B" line? I am pretty sure the "A" line is very prolific in the breed. It is the "B" line that has been endangered. Please set me straight if you have heard something that is different.
I like that you have brought up the idea of a half registry for Haflingers, based on the Half Arab registry... although I am not at all familiar with what it takes for a person to prove their horse is a half bred. Can you explain how that works?
I think that a breeder or an owner needs to take a little more responsibilty when it comes to providing paperwork to prove an animal is what they say it is. I have seen instances where people who own gold ponies with white manes automatically assume that their horse is a Haflinger... because of what they were told... not with solid evidence. EVEN (and especially upsetting to me) if the horse is not at all displaying Haflinger characteristics. Those who claim thier horse is a Haflinger, and tell others that is what they have, even though that horse is displaying very different behaviors or looks, really are doing the breed a lot of harm.
Yes, I own two registered Haflingers. Yes, I believe in the mission of the American Haflinger Registry - which is by the way a registry that keeps records of purebred Haflingers pedigrees.
There have been some rather nasty statements from non registered Haflinger owners - naming those of us who own purebreds as "snobs". I have never heard an owner of purebreds throwing such insults out to others. I call an ace an ace... if you own an unregistered Haflinger, that is what you have. It is that simple. If you cannot prove the parentage with documentation why on earth would you be upset that your horse cannot be registered? Registration proves parentage, follows lineage, shows care and thought and work put into breeding.
Now, that being said, why on earth does a person who owns a non registered Haflinger want to gain registration? Just because a horse holds papers does not make it a better horse. A horse proves itself by it's deeds and it's usage. If you have a wonderful horse, be proud of that fact. Why insist that horse is a particular breed if you cannot prove it? I have owned 3 unregistered half bred horses (not Haflingers) and I never once have thought to pursue a breed registration for any of them... I love and cherish those horses for what they do, because they are good equine citizens. Not because I can put a breed label on them.
I feel strongly that the American Haflinger Registry is doing all it has set out to do. I support registration of purebred Haflingers with the organization. It is so important to the breed to do so.
I vehimately oppose allowing exceptions to the rules for registration of purebred Haflingers. I NEVER would support the idea of allowing offspring of horses 2 years of age and under to be registered. To have allowed that breeding to take place shows irresposible behavior of the breeders. I don't care if that offspring is purebred - that breeding was WRONG, in so many ways. Does that make the offspring a bad horse - no way. But it should not be allowed to happen, as it is damaging to all of the horses involved.
Just a few of my thoughts on this all... and I am sure that is not the end of it, because this really is a topic I feel strongly about.
Your Haffiefriend,
~Kiola~
Brier, WA
--- In haflingerfriends@yahoogroups.com, "moyra_d" <sk_4444@...> wrote:
>
> Here is my 2 cents worth: I have never joined a registry before this year and am looking forward to seeing what is offered. I might not have joined if not for the 2 registered mares being breed to a reg. stallion and I waited til the last day to send it in in case they didn't take or lost their foals. I bought them as a team for $500.00 total. This will so you how hard the current times are. At this price they could have ended up anywhere, they are 18 and in the world of quarter horses that is past prime. My girls are beautiful to me, but are the draftier type. I have wanted a haflinger since I was a little girl who got a horse breed book for Christmas. 35 years later here I own 2 with 2 on the way. I am disappointed to find out after my long wait the the breed is going thru a breeding standard change so that they are beginning to have the body build of a lighter breed. Is there a chance that they will begin to have health problems we see in dogs that have been over bred to have only one look. Just in the past weeks I have read how the "A" line was recently almost lost. With that in mind I see an advantage of having a split in types to preserve bloodlines that maybe needed to save the breed at a later date. I will never be a breed snob, since the best horse I have ever owned had no papers and it would have made no difference in who he was or how he rode. The arab breed is old and is not threatened nor has it been hurt by having a half breed registry. Let's keep in mind preserving the past and adapting for the future.
>
> --- In haflingerfriends@yahoogroups.com, "chuck.hendershot" <chuck.hendershot@> wrote:
> >
> > I agree with the issues that you raise, however, have we stopped the proliferation of the non-registered Haflinger or the breeding of these animals by ignoring them in the registry? What I am suggesting would help control this proliferation by requiring the owner who worked with the registry for some recognition would agree that this animal would not be bred. Thus limiting some growth in the non-registered animals.
> >
> > Also as you said in your earlier message the registry has certain obligations that have to be met to provide its services. If we continue to have less and less members the costs to mantain those services have only one direction to go up. There are two possible outcomes to spiralling costs and neither are good for the breed. The on most pertinent to this discussion is that the registry can no longer afford to function which is a maor loss to all the breeders and owners in the US. If we explore new ideas we could possibly solve two issues by expanding the membership, increasing registrations and potentially decreasing fees so that more people will get involved. I do not believe that I know the answers, but I am more inclined to look at positive new alternatives to solve problems then to simply say no because it is not crystal clear from the beginning how it directly supports the objective that was established a number of years ago, especially when that approach may result in the coplete failure of being able to achieve the objective.
> >
> > --- In haflingerfriends@yahoogroups.com, Emily Gibson <briarcroft@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Chuck,
> > >
> > > I sympathize with the desire to bring the non-registered Haflinger owner
> > > "into the fold" so to speak and I have, on my own, in a number of ways over
> > > the years. On my www.haflingerhorses.com website, I have accepted free ads
> > > for unregistered Haflingers in support of those owners, much to the
> > > criticism of other Haflinger breeders. However, I cannot begin to tell you
> > > the hundreds of ads and pictures I've been sent over the years of "grade
> > > Haflingers" that people want to sell on my website that look absolutely
> > > nothing like Haflingers, either because they were sold a horse they were
> > > told was a Haflinger or they believe they can market their horse as a
> > > Haflinger. So my bottom line is: if it looks like a Haflinger in the
> > > picture I've been sent, then I'll put it on the Haflinger website as a grade
> > > Haflinger. If it doesn't, I won't.
> > >
> > > How could that possibly work in a registry where our goal and mission is to
> > > preserve pedigree integrity and tracking? The whole point of the existence
> > > of the registry is to prevent unregistered Haflingers from proliferating.
> > > This is not being snooty or stuck up. This is the mission of the
> > > organization. I really think it cannot be the registry goal to somehow
> > > incorporate Haflingers without proof or pure breeding or
> > > pedigree/ownership. Like I said, we are looking at working with hardship
> > > situations (owner death, etc) where the transfer couldn't happen properly,
> > > but where there is no proof whatsoever that a horse is purebred Haflinger?
> > > To me, calling it a Haflinger is only wishful thinking as it can never be
> > > proven.
> > >
> > > What regional associations do with their events is a whole other thing.
> > > When I organized events for the Western Haflinger Association, grade
> > > Haflingers were welcome because we wanted all people to be involved with the
> > > breed, as it was a social/educational opportunity.
> > >
> > > Those owners who believe they own a Haflinger, but without papers, and there
> > > are many of you out there, should still feel an allegiance to the mission
> > > of the registry, and support it with their dues dollars. That is what breed
> > > support and promotion is all about.
> > >
> > > Emily
> > >
> > > On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 3:16 PM, chuck.hendershot <chuck.hendershot@
> > > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I think that we are missing an opportunity and it sounds like
> > > > disenfranchising a number of non-registered Haflinger owners, which I
> > > > believe is a big mistake for AHR and the breed.
> > > >
> > > > I guess the thing in this discussion thread that bothers me the most is
> > > > feeling that we do not want to involve the non-registered owners and
> > > > purposely exclude them from shows and events. As a breeder and a business
> > > > person this does not make sense. These owners have been exposed to the
> > > > versatility and calm nature of the Haflinger and are going to be easy sale
> > > > opportunities as they look to add to their herd or excuse my term but
> > > > upgrade to a fully registered animal. While they know the quality of the
> > > > horses we certainly are not showing these owners and prospective clients the
> > > > quality of the people involved wit the Haflinger breed. So from my
> > > > standpoint we have a challenge to work on and I hope that I always welcome a
> > > > Haflinger owner and try to open the breed to everyone. I may try to sell you
> > > > a registered animal, but that is what we do, not because I think your animal
> > > > is less capable because someone else did not care to suppor the breed by
> > > > registering their animals.
> > > >
> > > > As a breeder, I agree with Emily that we do not want to do anything that
> > > > would dilute the breed. We work very hard to produce atheltic and versatile
> > > > animals with each generation improving from the last. However, I also see
> > > > the advantage to preventing non-registered animals from becoming breeding
> > > > stock either to compete against our produce or as foundation stock for an
> > > > attempt to establish a new breed like the "Spotted Haflinger" which has no
> > > > requirements or breeding standards. I would be certainly interested in
> > > > trying to develop a policy or standard for including the non-registered
> > > > animals within the Haflinger family, especially in exchage for an agreement
> > > > that the animal would not be bred or if sold that the animal would not be
> > > > sold to an owner who did not agree to sign the agreement not to breed the
> > > > animal.
> > > >
> > > > From an AHR standpoint I can see several opportunities to win in this
> > > > situation. The first would be an increase in overall membership. Second
> > > > would be a service for all breeders (large and small) by putting some
> > > > control over the breeding of non-registered animals. Since we can not stop
> > > > the "Spotted Haflinger" people from using the name, we certainly do not have
> > > > any control over the non-registered animals from using the name. If we bring
> > > > them into the family we gain some control and I can only see this helping
> > > > the prices for registered animals. Third, a service could be provided for
> > > > helping any owner that wanted to attempt to prove the "purity" of its animal
> > > > for registration for a fee. If successful we add to the registry and gain a
> > > > registration fee.
> > > >
> > > > I guess my biggest problem with this thread is that the response to people
> > > > who would like to get more involved with the Haflingers and represent future
> > > > clients who could buy our poduce is why we cannot do what they are
> > > > suggesting. We real support their impression of the registered owner and
> > > > breeder as "snooty" when we should be trying to figure out how to brng them
> > > > into the family. I would like to see the AHR Board or the membership
> > > > committee take the non-registered Haflinger owner as a project, to develop
> > > > some guidelnes to nclude them in the association and not alienate them from
> > > > the breed. Then I hope we can sell you a registered animal in the future,
> > > > not because it is necessarily a better or more lovable animal, but because
> > > > you love Haflingers and enjoy the people associated with these wonderful,
> > > > athletic and versatile horses.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>
------------------------------------
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