Good points on this subject. My first Haflinger was from Andrew Yoder's line and my NON registered Haflinger is as beautiful, mindful, forgiving and more well trained! ( I forgot to say 'smart')good IMy
--- In haflingerfriends@yahoogroups.com, haflingerhorse@... wrote:
>
>
> Oh Emily, EXACTLY the type of response I would expect from an AHR board member to another member who offers suggestions and ideas as to why there are not more people breeding, joining, or becoming members. This is the EXACT same responses the others are getting when issues arrive in our registry, such as issues (and letters) as far as inspection, issues with current judges (other letters written) and these people who speak up become 'attackers' of the registry instead of the registry looking to help these people. In fact, a letter went out to AHR members that the board was willing and open to offering suggestions and now I am an attacker for the suggestions on what could be wrong (from a owner/breeder/competitor standpoint).
> It is all roses when everyone thinks a group is just the best, but if someone goes against the group, or ideas, or has a different suggestion, then it is an 'attack' Yes, certainly I am attacking my breed registry, the registry in which my horses earn me a living, not just a write off hobby.
> And I have been on committees in which people were not welcome, I have spoken with Bill Jameson privately, as well as Paul Sutton, and Andrew Yoder, and you and I have also had our share of private emails regarding direction and I have also spoken with Ruth Schwab at the office.
> My response was to why others may not be joining, and that if there were actual incentives (as AHR is so quick to point out their membership fees are the same as other registries, but AHR isn't so quick to point out that they offer much less in incentivies than other registries) that perhaps it would encourage more people to join, and participate. The registry can't keep expecting a free handout, or volunteers, because they 'love' the breed. These same people are tired of being asked again and again and again for free handouts, they get tired of it. But keep up that attitude that those who offer suggestions are now 'attackers' of the registry, they are also the ones paying into, but many won't be if that attitude continues as is showing now with the membership rates dropping even lower.
>
> Jacque in Ohio
>
>
>
>
> --- In haflingerfriends@yahoogroups.com, Emily Gibson <briarcroft@> wrote:
> >
> > Jacque, with all due respect for your important role in Haflinger breeding,
> > training and organization of successful shows like the Buckeye Show---
> >
> > in response to your diatribe against AHR and the people who put in many
> > volunteer hours to make things happen for the benefit of the breed, I will
> > only respond with this:
> >
> > there isn't any AHR committee turning away willing volunteers with energy,
> > motivation, ideas and passion for the Haflinger breed. We are
> > always struggling to find people willing to volunteer their time, write
> > quality articles for the magazine, take good photos to share, put time in on
> > various clerical tasks the office can no longer handle, without expecting a
> > reward of free ads or other incentives.
> > Anyone who is interested in putting in the time and effort to keep a healthy
> > registry alive and well should contact President Bill Jameson at
> > bjameson7448@ as he will put you in touch with the committee
> > chair person who needs your skills.
> >
> > Emily
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 11:30 AM, <haflingerhorse@> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Emily and John,
> > > I have to say I agree with John on this one for the most part. And in all
> > > honesty to Emily, we had six foals born this year, and we seriously
> > > considered not registering them all (we did however) Four years ago that
> > > would never have been a consideration.
> > > Everyone says the economy is tough, but you know what, there are ways to
> > > make it work. You say that AHR membership fees are the same as other
> > > registries, ok, but are the AHR BENEFITS the same as these other
> > > registries?? Absolutely not. I just read in the Equine Journal that the
> > > National Cutting Horse Association had their LARGEST membership year last
> > > year at 20,255 members, in this 'down' economy and they managed to pay out
> > > premiums of over 10 million dollars. (The Triple Crown pays out 4 million.)
> > > Besides the discounts for transfer, or registering a Haflinger, oh, and a
> > > magazine that has very little content, you don't have to be a AHR member to
> > > show at the National Show, you don't have to be a AHR member to consign a
> > > horse to the AHR sale, you don't have to be a AHR member to have a horse
> > > inspected. At least, you didn't use to have to be a member, perhaps this
> > > changed.
> > > AHR wants the membership money, but it has been made pretty clear by many
> > > AHR directors that AHR's job is to register and transfer Haflingers, that's
> > > it. So, if you don't sell privately, and you don't breed, why plunk down $65
> > > a year???? You can still sell a horse at the auction, you can still show at
> > > the National and other private Registered Haflinger Shows. There isn't a
> > > year end awards that is actually celebrated, banquet, or even a 'Thank you'
> > > or 'welcome' dinner or something. Heck, even the little local groups have
> > > more things offered.
> > > We, like many others have put a lot of time and money into the Haflinger
> > > breed, National Show, Futurities, SIP program and Inspections etc and this
> > > was the first year we honestly thought about NOT renewing our membership.
> > > Since we show and train Haflingers, the open shows we go to don't care if we
> > > have registered Haflingers or not, they have never asked to see our papers.
> > > As far as that goes, besides the National Show, there are very few all
> > > registered Haflinger Shows, and the draft shows usually don't ask for
> > > registration papers to begin with.
> > > You have to start with the little guys like John has said, make it worth
> > > their while. The recreational points program is a great idea, it needs
> > > developed more, those people who particpate would love to see the miles
> > > accumulated in the magazine, with pictures and a short story about their
> > > horse. Same with Inspection. There wasn't one thing in the magazine that
> > > showed pictures of who inspected Silver. I understand that the magazine
> > > doesn't have professional writers who are paid, but make something worth
> > > while to those who do participate. Let's say for every 5 articles that are
> > > written and used in the magazine, or events covered, the writer gets a 1/2
> > > page black and white ad, thank you, or congrats ad. Have a foal announcement
> > > page with pictures for $10 a picture, a youth page, a farm page and charge
> > > $50 to get a one story page about your haflinger farm. After the National
> > > Show, make a 'National Show Special' that you can put a picture and
> > > 'congrats' line in for $$$?? Have people write about different places to
> > > camp, drive, or parades. And, history articles on the breed, how it evolved
> > > in the US etc. I understand it takes a committee to put this stuff together,
> > > and that is another issue, AHR has the same people on the same committee
> > > year after year, no new people are asked to be on, nothing new is
> > > accomplished, same old same old. There are new people out there who have
> > > ideas, who want to be a part, but they are pretty much shut down by the
> > > others who have been on the committees for years and years. It needs to be
> > > changed up, rolled over, new people and ideas to get on these committees who
> > > actually want to do something and improve, not just have their name on a
> > > list. After three years, I have declined to be on any AHR committee for
> > > 2010, that opens up three positions, as I was on three committees, do you
> > > think there will be new people put in those positions, or the same people
> > > from the same little group?
> > >
> > > Jumping down from the box now, to much snow, not enough riding I suppose is
> > > the reason for the long post.
> > >
> > > Jacque in Ohio
> > > www.hfbhaflingers.com
> > >
> > >
> > > > John,
> > > > anyone who cares about the future tracking of a foal born on their farm
> > > will
> > > > register them, it is that simple. It has to be more about dollars and
> > > > cents, it is about the care of the animal in the future.
> > > >
> > > > The big breeders aren't breeding much any more either, so this is an
> > > equal
> > > > opportunity depression. Lots of big breeders are leaving Haflingers as
> > > > well. The costs in the Haflinger registry are no different than other
> > > horse
> > > > breeds, and we have to keep an office open and staffed.
> > > >
> > > > The Board is definitely willing to look at good ideas for fund raising
> > > from
> > > > the membership to keep things going.
> > > >
> > > > Emily
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 7:59 AM, John Borucki <r10a@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hello,
> > > > >
> > > > > With the prices of the registry is billing members and the price a
> > > > > registered Haflinger brings now a days. You get the same amount of
> > > Dollars
> > > > > for a grade...So why register them..I don't breed anymore...economy is
> > > not
> > > > > good and the back yard breeder (Ma & Pa) operations are folding up and
> > > the
> > > > > registry is hurting not having these small breeders.
> > > > >
> > > > > The little breeders once brought in allot of registry dollars for the
> > > AHR!
> > > > > But the little breeder can't compete with the big breeders anymore, so
> > > > > there
> > > > > are allot of grad Haflingers. I don't like THAT either, But in tuff
> > > times,
> > > > > people will bred what they want.
> > > > >
> > > > > You have to open the doors to all breeders! You have to welcome
> > > everyone
> > > > > into a association. The good old boy clubs are finding
> > > > > out................YOU NEED THE LITTLE GUYS TO HELP A ASSOCIATION BRING
> > > IN
> > > > > THE DOLLARS! Because once the little guys are gone. The word of mouth
> > > is
> > > > > gone to about the Haflinger horse. The little Fairs, shows and the
> > > showing
> > > > > of the breed not at the national level. The same people are always at
> > > those
> > > > >
> > > > > shows. The little county fairs and little shows is were I use to get
> > > people
> > > > >
> > > > > interested in the breed.
> > > > >
> > > > > I use to Register 5 to 10 Foals a years and then transfer dollars to
> > > new
> > > > > owners..I am gone and I know of 6 to 8 other Small breeders that are
> > > gone
> > > > > and guess what...The Associations dollars are gone too. You have to
> > > make it
> > > > >
> > > > > affordable for the small guy to stay in the Association!
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you,
> > > > >
> > > > > John J. Borucki
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "HRT" <hrhorses@ <hrhorses%40paulbunyan.net>>
> > > > > To: <haflingerfriends@yahoogroups.com<haflingerfriends%40yahoogroups.com><haflingerfriends%
> > > 40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > >
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 8:40 AM
> > > > > Subject: RE: [haflingerfriends] Raising funds ... something for
> > > > > non-registered owners?
> > > > >
> > > > > >I second Sher on this. my guy is registered, but I'm looking at
> > > another
> > > > > >that
> > > > > > isn't. For some reason just having a piece of paper saying that he
> > > was a
> > > > > > Haflinger, but not to be used for breeding (he's a gelding - *wink*)
> > > > > would
> > > > > > make a difference to me. I would be one of those people who would pay
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > extra money to get a certificate that says she is a Haflinger based
> > > on
> > > > > his
> > > > > > characteristics. Just more food for thought.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jen & Naverre
> > > > > > In MN
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From: haflingerfriends@yahoogroups.com<haflingerfriends%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > <haflingerfriends%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > [mailto:haflingerfriends@yahoogroups.com<haflingerfriends%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > <haflingerfriends%40yahoogroups.com>]
> > > > > On Behalf Of RkyMtnTrls@ <RkyMtnTrls%40aol.com>
> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 8:08 AM
> > > > > > To: haflingerfriends@yahoogroups.com<haflingerfriends%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > <haflingerfriends%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > Subject: [haflingerfriends] Raising funds ... something for
> > > > > non-registered
> > > > > > owners?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I know I will likely get flamed for this ... wether it's politely or
> > > > > point
> > > > > > blank ;-) .... but here goes, anyways ....
> > > > > > .
> > > > > > The ADGA, a national registry for dairy goats, has a second "sub"
> > > > > registry
> > > > > > for grades. Many of these high pedigree goats cost as much to
> > > purchase as
> > > > > > a quality horse - no joke, so no wise cracks about "it's just
> > > referring
> > > > > to
> > > > > > goats" (wink!) They have a program for grade goats who meet the breed
> > > > > > standards - conformation, etc - everything BUT the actual sheet of
> > > paper,
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > actual registration certificate.
> > > > > > .
> > > > > > There are many registries out there, that bring in a respectable
> > > income,
> > > > > > that do just that - based on plenty of photos mailed in along with
> > > the
> > > > > > registry's fee - showing all sides of the critter in question, mailed
> > > in
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > registration for judging if meets the breed's standards. Heck, make
> > > it a
> > > > > > two-part process - a fee for an AHR rep to look over the submitted
> > > > > photos,
> > > > > > then if approved, the owner is informed and sends in a second fee
> > > which
> > > > > is
> > > > > > a
> > > > > >
> > > > > > membership fee.
> > > > > > .
> > > > > > What if AHR created a sub-registry for non-registered owners? There
> > > are
> > > > > > MANY MANY of us owners of full Haflingers that are just missing that
> > > > > sheet
> > > > > > of paper. And as far as an "experimental grade" (the phrase the ADGA
> > > > > uses)
> > > > > > goes for breeding ... that's a simple thing ... make it clear the
> > > > > > "experimental grade registration" means for that one horse only, not
> > > for
> > > > > > breeding
> > > > > > non-registered mares nor for breeding non-registered stallions. Just
> > > for
> > > > > > riding / carting / whatever mares & geldings.
> > > > > > .
> > > > > > The whole point being, many owners who are very proud of their
> > > > > > non-registered Haflingers would probably LOVE to pay for a
> > > registration
> > > > > > certificate.
> > > > > > Just something recognizing that their Haflinger as a Haflinger - of
> > > > > course
> > > > > > the "experimental grade" would have to meet ALL the breed
> > > requirements
> > > > > for
> > > > > > confirmation, with the consideration that *of course* the owner can
> > > not
> > > > > > show pedigree. (If there was a pedigree record in the first place,
> > > the
> > > > > > Haflinger would likely have been registered - so proving pedigree is
> > > a
> > > > > > rather
> > > > > > pointless requirement.)
> > > > > > .
> > > > > > The whole point of bringing this up is ... MANY owners of
> > > non-registered
> > > > > > Haflingers would enjoy having a certificate, even if it was just
> > > under an
> > > > > > "experimental grade" title. Even if it was with a firm no-breeding
> > > > > policy.
> > > > > > I would be the first to pay up! ;-)
> > > > > > .
> > > > > > Again - I know that this is likely to get me flambay'd thoroughly ...
> > > but
> > > > > > has to be said ... the non-registered Haflingers are a much
> > > overlooked
> > > > > > "branch" of the Haflinger community, often spurned and scoffed by the
> > > > > > registered "branch". ;-) But consider - if the AHR is so pinched and
> > > > > needs
> > > > > > funding so badly ... rather than tap the registered folks who also
> > > are
> > > > > > pinched for funds in this economy ... how about creating a special
> > > > > > sub-registry
> > > > > > and welcoming the non-registered Haflingers who meet the breed
> > > standards?
> > > > > > *NOT* to breeding, applicable ONLY to that one Haflinger.
> > > > > > .
> > > > > > Just food for thought,
> > > > > > Sher
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >
> > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > > > > > Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.128/2604 - Release Date:
> > > > > > 01/06/10
> > > > > > 13:35:00
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
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