I think that you too are misinterpreting what I and others say. The problem is that the horses that meet TODAYs standards are not the type of haflinger that met YESTERDAYs standards.
So, when Jeniffer says she doesn't like stallion A or stallion B, "He's GOLD rated" or "He's SILVER classified" is not a valid argument, it is The Problem.
I do not say that *I* personally disagree with every single inspection score that has been made in the past decade or two, of course I don't! All I say is that I see a trend, and it is not to preserv the haflinger that *I* personally visualize when I read the old descriptions of the breed. When I say "old" I mean from end of the 19th century or beginning of the 20th century. Unfortunately there are not many photos from this time so we have to rely upon verbal descriptions and measurements.
Once again, I am NOT advocating breeding for a small coldblood, a mini Belgian or anything of the kind. But today's trends go towards something that is "too much". Too much size and too much refinement, and nothing else is accepted ...
I also have to disagree on your statement "> Please to anyone wishing to weigh in on what a Haflinger should look like, or what the history is of the breed... research it. It is pretty easy to do, it just takes time. Read what the breed standards are on the AHR website, and also read what they are on the World Haflinger Federation (the international governing body) website."
It is NOT easy to learn about the history of this breed! It may seem easy, as almost all websites look the same, but hey, that is just the "surface". If you go just a little deeper than the AHR or WHF websites, there's TONS of information that will make you see the haflinger and it's history in a new light. Geeez, I sound as if I'm from some obscure sect trying to make you "see the light". Sorry if that is the impression I give! :-) I just see the HUGE difference between what you can learn about the breed if you read/speak German or "just" english. I can tell you, when I learned German (a process that started in 1993), a whole new world within the haflinger-world opened up for me. And as for time, it's not that bad at all. It just took me a bit over 20 years to learn what I know today.
I could go on arguing about "facts" on the AHR or especially WHF websites that can definitely be discussed (and ARE being discussed) but I feel like I better give up and go feed my horses because it's no use to fight those windmills any more. Anyone familiar with Don Quixote knows what I mean. (He was fighting the windmills and it was an endless battle that could not be won).
I guess I'll have to start translating all the old books to english. I just wonder who's gonna feed me (and my hungry horses) while I do it. I know who won't do it, but that's not much help! ;-)
Best wishes from your haflingerfriend in Sweden
Kerstin
--- In haflingerfriends@yahoogroups.com, "kiolak" <kiolak@...> wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> I would like to point out that while all of the stallions that Jennifer listed were licensed by the AHR, they were NOT all approved (recommended) for breeding, per breed standards. I believe those to be two different things. I will try and give some proof of that, so that you can learn from what I have found out.
>
> This is taken from the AHR website:
> "Application for Stallion License
> A Stallion License Application must be completed prior to the issuing of a stallion license. This form is returned to the AHR office--it is not sent in with the DNA sample. Note that the top half is completed by the stallion owner, and the bottom half is completed by the veterinarian examining the stallion. Stallions must be two years old prior to the examination. All stallions used for breeding must be DNA tested and examined in order to be licensed. Request a Stallion License form and a DNA form from AHR for a total of $235 members, $310 nonmembers. This covers the cost of the DNA form and the license application. Have your vet examine the horse and complete the bottom portion of the Stallion License Application. Return the Stallion License Application to the AHR office. Pull the hair and attach it to the DNA form and send it to the University of Kentucky as instructed on the form. When the results of the DNA testing are returned from the lab in about 4 to 6 weeks, a license will be issued and sent to you. If you have had your stallion licensed in either HAA or HRNA and his vet inspection is on file at the AHR office, you do not have to have another vet inspection. However, if your stallion has not been DNA tested, this must be accomplished prior to registering foals for 2004 and beyond."
>
> Basically - you have a vet fill out this part on the stallion licensing form:
> "Veterinarian's Report -- To be completed by a Veterinarian
> 1. Have both testicles descended? Does this stallion have two normal size testicles in normal position in the scrotum? Can you verify that the stallion is not cryptorchid? Yes _____ No ______
> 2. Checking the first pair of (middle) incisors, top and bottom, do the biting surfaces touch? Can you verify that the stallion is neither monkey mouthed nor parrot mouthed? While checking his mouth, is his head in the normal head carriage for the Haflinger? Yes _____ No ______
> Please check one:
> _________ The DNA lab report is attached.
> _________ I am sending a hair sample to the University of Kentucky lab for DNA typing. The Owner understands that licensing will not be complete until the lab report is received by the Registry which usually takes 4 to 6 weeks
> Veterinarian's Comments:
> I personally have inspected the above stallion and find him to meet the qualifications required for a breeding license with the American Haflinger Registry."
>
> So a licensed stallion must meet the above qualifications - BUT it does not need to meet breed standards!
>
> To find out if a stallion meets with the American Haflinger Registeries breed standards it should have gone through I&C.
>
> For a stallion to be considered approved (or recommended) for breeding by the AHR, it would have to go through Inspection and Classification (I&C) which in the USA (and I am ONLY talking about the USA) is a NOT a compulsory program. A stallion does not need to pass I&C to breed in the USA - In Europe it is quite different.
>
> "Stallions scoring 74 points or less are not recommended for breeding." (per AHR rules).
>
> So, I looked up each of the stallions that Jennifer listed, and of the ones she liked, none of them had been through I&C. We do not know if they meet breed standards. We know they are licensed with the AHR.
>
> Of the stallions that Jennifer personally did not care for the looks of, two were GOLD rated (which is a HUGE deal) and three were SILVER rated. Three had not been inspected.
>
> All were licensed. Not all were recommended for breeding by the AHR - which means it cannot be proven that those stallions meet breed standards.
>
> Please to anyone wishing to weigh in on what a Haflinger should look like, or what the history is of the breed... research it. It is pretty easy to do, it just takes time. Read what the breed standards are on the AHR website, and also read what they are on the World Haflinger Federation (the international governing body) website.
>
> To help get those of you who are interested in learning more about Haflinger history and what Haflinger breed standards are both in the USA and internationally, check these links out;
>
> AHR website:
> http://www.haflingerhorse.com/
> AHR Breed Handbook - Rules, Regulations and Standards (in PDF):
> http://www.haflingerhorse.com/documents/ahr_handbook.pdf
> look on pages 53&54 to see a short summery of I&C
> WHF website:
> http://www.haflinger-tirol.com/en/world_federation/
> WHF Breeding objectives (in PDF):
> http://tinyurl.com/ybrmfgm
>
> I am sure that Kerstin can give us even more links to check out as well... I am not trying to be a know it all (as no one can ever know everything... we all are continually learning)
>
> OooF! Now I am taking a break. My eyes have gone blurry looking things up for everyone. I hope that I have been a little helpful and that you all will take the time to check out those links... there is an awful lot to be learned there. Learning is fun!
>
> Oh and BTW - I am not a breeder! I am someone who cares about the Haflinger breed, and wishes to see it remain as it is written within the breed standards. You don't have to be a breeder to care about the breed. ;^) I think this is something we can all AGREE on!
>
> Your Haffiefriend,
> ~Kiola~
> Brier, WA
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