I think this has been a GOOD subject overall. We have shed a lot of light on things here. As per you Jennifer making your opinions on what you thought was or is drafty verses modern, I knew you would get some feed back, however, I did not know what kind. I personally don't mind what horses you think or consider to be modern verses drafty and would not have taken it as a personal attack I don't think. I may have been offended at first, but at this point I know what I would have said or done, and that would not have been to put you down for your opinion. Everyone has opinions and many of us have different opinions. Yes, Once again I think we should be grateful that we do live in a freer country, however, with that comes responsability amondst us all.
I can say and wanted to say this though, if you had posted a picture of one of my stallions, and declared him modern verses drafty, I could send more pictures to show you that each of our stallions have pictures were they look drafty and each have pictures were they look modern.
Going back to what I said before on fitting a horse for certain needs or looks or wants, whatever you would like to call it. It is especially true in the younger the age a lot of times, the more modern they look. As they progress in years, they fill out and gain and soon become blimps if we do not regulate feed and give them a job (other than eating..haha). So, for those of you feeling threatened about someones opinion on what your horse may be, well try to look at it in a more simple manner. Jennifer, I would like to ask if you have ever seen any of these stallions in person though and have you ever seen them more than once, at different times in their life? You might just change your mind on some of the horses you picked- and you might not, I don't know. I just know that for example, the picture of A-Rock you posted that is also posted on the AHR web-site, is not the best picture of him in my mind and does not depict his best qualities. However, I can also say that by you posting your pictures, you showed your opinion and by using pictures people could better see your side. However, maybe people should remember that those pictures may not be the best pictures of their stallions, or the most accurate or up to date ones, and therefor the judgement you made was simply by a photo and not what the horse is right now.
I hope this helps everyone in some way to look at things in a different light.
I for one have felt offended at times by others words as I am sure I have offended others, but keep in mind folks, we do agree on one thing for sure..we love haflingers! And I don't think anyone of us wants to or is trying to hurt anyone with our opinions and comments and typing, even if our spelling sucks! (And yes, I quit using the spell check thingy here, because everytime I do, I loose everything by hitting the wrong something or rather.)
Anyway- debate is good. It gets us thinking, however, we should try not to make enemies out of it, but in-stead realize how it brings us all even closer! I LOVE MY HAFLINGERS! Just wanted to yell that out loud, but here only the birds and bears will hear me!
Later my friends...
Sincerely,
Dawn
--- In haflingerfriends@yahoogroups.com, "wapirose" <riatafaline@...> wrote:
>
> Kiola and everyone,
>
> I did not do any deep research on the stallions I choose... just clicked on the pictures and from first glance at them decided what catagory they seemed to go under to answer the one question
>
> "What is your idea of 'drafty' and 'Modern'?"
>
> Sheesh what a simple question and answer that just got blown way out of proportion. Typical. lol. I should have known better. Oh well. I am just thankfull I live in America where we can have free thoughts on things :)
>
>
> OK what is our next topic?? lol
>
>
> Jennifer in cali
>
> --- In haflingerfriends@yahoogroups.com, "kiolak" <kiolak@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello all,
> >
> > I would like to point out that while all of the stallions that Jennifer listed were licensed by the AHR, they were NOT all approved (recommended) for breeding, per breed standards. I believe those to be two different things. I will try and give some proof of that, so that you can learn from what I have found out.
> >
> > This is taken from the AHR website:
> > "Application for Stallion License
> > A Stallion License Application must be completed prior to the issuing of a stallion license. This form is returned to the AHR office--it is not sent in with the DNA sample. Note that the top half is completed by the stallion owner, and the bottom half is completed by the veterinarian examining the stallion. Stallions must be two years old prior to the examination. All stallions used for breeding must be DNA tested and examined in order to be licensed. Request a Stallion License form and a DNA form from AHR for a total of $235 members, $310 nonmembers. This covers the cost of the DNA form and the license application. Have your vet examine the horse and complete the bottom portion of the Stallion License Application. Return the Stallion License Application to the AHR office. Pull the hair and attach it to the DNA form and send it to the University of Kentucky as instructed on the form. When the results of the DNA testing are returned from the lab in about 4 to 6 weeks, a license will be issued and sent to you. If you have had your stallion licensed in either HAA or HRNA and his vet inspection is on file at the AHR office, you do not have to have another vet inspection. However, if your stallion has not been DNA tested, this must be accomplished prior to registering foals for 2004 and beyond."
> >
> > Basically - you have a vet fill out this part on the stallion licensing form:
> > "Veterinarian's Report -- To be completed by a Veterinarian
> > 1. Have both testicles descended? Does this stallion have two normal size testicles in normal position in the scrotum? Can you verify that the stallion is not cryptorchid? Yes _____ No ______
> > 2. Checking the first pair of (middle) incisors, top and bottom, do the biting surfaces touch? Can you verify that the stallion is neither monkey mouthed nor parrot mouthed? While checking his mouth, is his head in the normal head carriage for the Haflinger? Yes _____ No ______
> > Please check one:
> > _________ The DNA lab report is attached.
> > _________ I am sending a hair sample to the University of Kentucky lab for DNA typing. The Owner understands that licensing will not be complete until the lab report is received by the Registry which usually takes 4 to 6 weeks
> > Veterinarian's Comments:
> > I personally have inspected the above stallion and find him to meet the qualifications required for a breeding license with the American Haflinger Registry."
> >
> > So a licensed stallion must meet the above qualifications - BUT it does not need to meet breed standards!
> >
> > To find out if a stallion meets with the American Haflinger Registeries breed standards it should have gone through I&C.
> >
> > For a stallion to be considered approved (or recommended) for breeding by the AHR, it would have to go through Inspection and Classification (I&C) which in the USA (and I am ONLY talking about the USA) is a NOT a compulsory program. A stallion does not need to pass I&C to breed in the USA - In Europe it is quite different.
> >
> > "Stallions scoring 74 points or less are not recommended for breeding." (per AHR rules).
> >
> > So, I looked up each of the stallions that Jennifer listed, and of the ones she liked, none of them had been through I&C. We do not know if they meet breed standards. We know they are licensed with the AHR.
> >
> > Of the stallions that Jennifer personally did not care for the looks of, two were GOLD rated (which is a HUGE deal) and three were SILVER rated. Three had not been inspected.
> >
> > All were licensed. Not all were recommended for breeding by the AHR - which means it cannot be proven that those stallions meet breed standards.
> >
> > Please to anyone wishing to weigh in on what a Haflinger should look like, or what the history is of the breed... research it. It is pretty easy to do, it just takes time. Read what the breed standards are on the AHR website, and also read what they are on the World Haflinger Federation (the international governing body) website.
> >
> > To help get those of you who are interested in learning more about Haflinger history and what Haflinger breed standards are both in the USA and internationally, check these links out;
> >
> > AHR website:
> > http://www.haflingerhorse.com/
> > AHR Breed Handbook - Rules, Regulations and Standards (in PDF):
> > http://www.haflingerhorse.com/documents/ahr_handbook.pdf
> > look on pages 53&54 to see a short summery of I&C
> > WHF website:
> > http://www.haflinger-tirol.com/en/world_federation/
> > WHF Breeding objectives (in PDF):
> > http://tinyurl.com/ybrmfgm
> >
> > I am sure that Kerstin can give us even more links to check out as well... I am not trying to be a know it all (as no one can ever know everything... we all are continually learning)
> >
> > OooF! Now I am taking a break. My eyes have gone blurry looking things up for everyone. I hope that I have been a little helpful and that you all will take the time to check out those links... there is an awful lot to be learned there. Learning is fun!
> >
> > Oh and BTW - I am not a breeder! I am someone who cares about the Haflinger breed, and wishes to see it remain as it is written within the breed standards. You don't have to be a breeder to care about the breed. ;^) I think this is something we can all AGREE on!
> >
> > Your Haffiefriend,
> > ~Kiola~
> > Brier, WA
> >
>
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